#  >  > General Discussion >  >  > Occult >  >  >  Aleister Crowley

## zoomare

I do not claim to be an authority on all things Crowley. I have never read any of his books, but I have read a biography, and numerous articles documenting periods of his life.

I am curious to know what the gerneral opinion of him is here in this forum. From what I have read and heard he was man with little to no conscience that treated people horribly, and committed acts of brutality that I can't imagine justifiable in any context. If I remember correctly, towards the end of his life he was riddled with drug addictions as well.

For me, I find it hard to take anyone seriously that lived in such a manner, especially when it comes to drug consumption. Drugs always seem to be a crutch, and a distraction and never a serious method of inquiry into the workings of humanity, nature and the world(I have experimented quite a bit). Regular drug consumption is a reflection of an inability to be true to one's self, a discontentment with one's own person, and that makes it hard for me to look up to or even respect Aleister Crowley's philosophy.

What I am interested to know from you is:

Why you consider him and his philosophy so important and central to your own path?

Also, can his works be read and appreciated independent of the man's life itself?

Personaly, I don't care what anyone thinks or believes. Much more important is how one lives. Philosophy and religion is meaningless unless it is lived!

So, can insight and wisdom be gained from Aleister Crowley's work without it leading to a way of life similar to his?

with love,

zoomare

----------


## Nefilim

He took drugs for most of his life, not towards the end, and he was mainly addicted to Heroin, which was prescribed for his asthma. Yes Crowley did do a lot of horrible things, and yes he was quite the Libertine who used and abused. But one cannot doubt his contributions to the occult and esoteric. I do not follow him in any way, but I do have a certain amount of admiration for the man, despite his flaws.

----------


## zoomare

So, you would say that despite his flaws his work shouldn't be neglected? What have you yourself gained from his writings? And why do you admire him?

----------


## saint_john

Crowley was a man of inherent genius. He was born with it. If you've read his biography by Martin Booth you'll understand. I love his spirit, but he is not a good product of magick. He had numerous magickal failings, including the failure to complete the Abramelin. His base human ego completely defeated his Great Work - it is undeniable. There are many magicians alive now that are greater than him.
But almost none, ever, had his faculty with words that so greatly captured the triumphant magician's spirit.
His books on magick however were mostly recordings of what was passed down to him via initiation. He was never averse to breaking the oaths of secrecy that protected that knowledge.
That being said, Crowley greatly inspired me into the occult. I thank him for it. But as you grow more magickally, you see he actually is more tragedy that prophet. He had so much potential, but could never stick to anything... even to his dictate of Thelema (what you do must be under your will). - re his cocaine and heroin addiction. His last words (recorded by Deidre MacAlpine) were 'Sometimes, I hate myself...'. 
I recommend and love his work - apart from Thelema. But if you want the power and attainment that Crowley aspired to, rather pursue a present day Golden Dawn than the OTO or A:.A:. which are his work and orders. Both of which deadpan at the grade of Adaptus Minor/Major. Whereas there is GD available that reaches the final 3 grades to Ippissimus...

----------


## soloqi

My appeal to Croley was that he was a 'rebel' or rather an agent of chaos.
He did much for the occult movement in Europe, however the way he attained the position of head of the OTO could by some seem rather an savoury.
The credo of an occult student was: To dare, to will, to do, to remail silent.
He did the first three, not that it was a bad thing but rather gave the occult too much lime light, casting pearls amongst swine. For all his achievements the last years of his life were fully of regret, so some may say.
But take what he has with a pinch of salt, he alwaysed encouraged his students never to take him seriously, that is interesting.
I guess he gave people the choice to make up their onw mindes, while taking the blind followers for a ride on the wild side.

----------


## toadbile

Crowley's work with occult and The Golden Dawn were just cover for his service to the Crown as an agent of the British Intelligence Service. (And that is either true or as true as you want it to be: google "Secret Agent 666".)

----------


## zoomare

> I recommend and love his work - apart from Thelema.


What of his would you recomend as a starting point?

And, thanks for the thoughtful replies. I am glad to see that my judgements of his character are reflected in many of you. I was beginning to doubt that the occult and magick could lead to any path other than one similar to Crowley's own.

----------


## Skeptismo118

What acts of unspeakable brutality are you referring to?

After all we're talking the early 20th Century. Just off the top of my head I can think of two individuals responsible for far worse then Uncle Al ever even dreamed of.

Also




> Both of which deadpan at the grade of Adaptus Minor/Major. Whereas there is GD available that reaches the final 3 grades to Ippissimus...


Wow, could you have gotten your information any more backwards?

----------


## zoomare

> What acts of unspeakable brutality are you referring to?
> 
> After all we're talking the early 20th Century. Just off the top of my head I can think of two individuals responsible for far worse then Uncle Al ever even dreamed of.


Off the top of my head? Abandoning his wife and child in China seems like an act with disgustingly little empathy and regard for human life.

There is no need to compare. Sure, there are people who have commit much larger acts of brutality than Crowley, but that doesn't justify his actions and in no way cast a better light on him.

----------


## soloqi

It is a common fact that crowley was an agent for M16, Crowley himself mentioned he worked for the, the government deined this, however it has been made declassified that he did infact work the the MI6 during WW2 and before. The secret services had not reputation at the time and did now want to be seem as a supporter of Corwley anyway or form.

As for his actions well they speak for themself, what is good behavour other then a perception.

----------


## Huxley

I heard of Aleister two years ago incidently, as I got redirected to his Wiki page. I didn't read much, but I remember he made an enourmous impact on me. Two years later, which was virtually the begining of 2008, I decided to peek at him again since I heard about Ozzy Osbourn's 'Mr.Crowley'. Though I think I looked at his wiki page before the two years passed, but nothing of great interest, probably just looking around stuff for the Hellfire clubs.

I just love the character he is. I'm not really into his philosophical teachings, but he really did bring me into ocultism itself (Also since I started to form more of a rebeleous behaviour agaisnt my christian school since of a very unlucky incident). Continuing the 'Character' part, I just liked the life he had, which was very strange unlike other historic figures, and that cought my atention immediately. I really think there should be a professional movie dedicated to him, not one of those indies.

What do I think of him now? I still think his life is somwhat influential in me, since, in reality, I've just put a different perspective in life. I don't think he was atomically bad (Although, he didn't seem like the nicest man out there) but I do think he's revolutionized the way I think in a way; specially since once again I actually know ocultism and mysticism because of him.

----------


## Stella

I'm probably not exactly qualified to speak much on the subject of Crowley, since I really don't know much about him, but I'll say something anyway. From what I've read that others say about him, it seems that some students of the occult put him on a bit of a pedestal. I think that it is important to remember that he was human, and subject to the failings of humans. I don't know, maybe I'm a little biased to be sympathetic to his failings because I have my own history of drug abuse and excess. I would like to learn more about his work. When I do, I plan to give my attention to the particular subject in question, take what I find useful, and leave the rest.

Again, maybe I'm not informed enough for my opinion to carry much weight in this subject; this is just my two cents worth.  :Smile:

----------


## zoomare

> As for his actions well they speak for themself, what is good behavour other then a perception.


Certainly, a large part of any judgement, i.e. if something is good or bad, is perception. But, in my opinion, anyone that knowingly and willingly causes harm to another is acting in a "bad" way.




> I've heard it said that in order to be truely effective in magical workings one must seek to become inhuman.


I don't see how it is possible for a human to be anything but human.

----------


## Odin

no ones actions can be justified whether good or bad, but should be left up to the person when committing what ever act that might be at the time be it in every day life just as a person or when practicing Magick

In his writings the man was brilliants and you can't tell me that there is not one Magician that is perfect in each and every act

I believe that Crowley states in his book " Magickal Diaries of Aleister Crowley " that why should he defend himself against the allegations people are going to believe what they want anyway.


Aleister must have had made a impression on the world of magick with some fortitude as we are still following him in the certain teachings as well as discussing him and his life today.

And myself will continue to read he works

----------


## zoomare

> It happens all the time. Some people are born that way, some people are traumatized into it. You have to discard the human mindset because you work with things that are not human and do not share our general mores and values and certainly not our emotions, which can be a liability in some situations. I suppose the ideal state would be close to anti-social personality disorder the trick is being able to put that magical persona on and take it off when necessary.


In my opinion our perception will always be limmited by our humaness. With that I mean that we are human, and will always be human. No matter what your personality is, no matter if sane or insane, the foundation of your understanding will always be human. There is no way of discarding of that aspect of your self. In that light, we will never fully understand the world/reality as it really is, only as we as humans see it. At least while living...who knows what happens after death.

----------


## IAO131

93,

Crowley was an interesting, experienced, prolific, saintlike & devilish, cruel & compassionate, humorous & serious, etc.

I think he has much to offer in Thelema and his notions of Scientific Illuminism, etc. Check out the links in my signature.

IAO131

----------


## Wulzirik

Old post, and kind of a bump, but I figured I'd add my two cents as a Thelemite and OTO member.

Crowley the man must be separated from Crowley the magician. Crowley the man was a terrible, self-destructive individual, not to mention a sexist pig. Crowley the magician, on the other hand, was a brilliant mind. He was very deep, intricate, and worked some of the most complex magick I've ever seen. I've onlu been an OTO member for 8 months, so I'm not the best source here, but some people I know who have been in it for years still get their minds blown at some of the deep, intricate Kabbalistic things he's worked.

Also, to those who say to stay away from the dark path, I ask you this: why work magick with one hand tied behind your back, when you can use both? I work Thelemic, Setian, Satanic, and Luciferian magick, and it's been one of the best experiences of my life. However, I also make it a point to use the light side of the Kabbalah and white magick as well, and consider myself Christian. Limiting yourself to LHP or RHP is futile, and only serves to weaken you.

----------


## Lokia_Zos

He was racist and sexist in a time where that was expected of any British gentleman. 

I'd say a work to begin with is Liber Al. I believe in the Aeon of Horus (though I'm not much on the Thelemic ritual, or Crowleys own interpertations.) Also, Magick is great, if you're interested in ritual fluff.

Spare is interesting in his critique on Crowley. You hear the same old nonsense from everyone about his views on women and people of other races, but nothing that really get's at the heart of the problem...which I believe is his over-reliance on ritual, though according to some things within his philosophy might not even be needed. The man was a traditionalist in many ways, and definitely interesting and to me at least slightly admirable.

I like people who are all about self-pleasure, because I feel they are honest. This coming from a guy who has taken Bodhisattva vows. Oh well.

----------


## Lord Ruthven

In Crowley's own words (roughly, since I'm quoting from memory):

"The ordinary person says, 'You cannot kill him, he is just an innocent baby.'
'Ah,' Replies the knower, 'but that baby will grow up to be Nero.'
There is another stage above this that understands that Nero is just a crucial as Julius Ceasar."

Notwithstanding his rather Victorian view of the Emperors, this explains Crowley to me perfectly. He was necessary. Were it not for him, not a one of you would be on this forum because he led to Gardner and Gardner led to 'Witchcraft' (and the occult in general) being accepted. It was his work that Regardie stole (being frustrated at the lack of what he was learning) to publish and keep the GD alive when it almost died.

To say that Crowley was a cruel man and that therefore we should avoid him is, in my opinion, having a very narrow view of the world which does not suit a magician (or 'magickian' if you insist).

----------


## chronazon

I don't really care what kind of a person he was really. his work is magnificent, speaks for itself. 
just check out all the liberi at 
The Libri of Aleister Crowley

I don't think this includes Knox Om Pax, my personal favorite book of his. and no casual mention of crowley's work deserves some kind of psychological character analysis, no this link is great, plenty of great stuff any magician should have .

----------


## Balam_del_Monte

have any of you seen the film "Crowley" in the movie aisles at certain big markets? it is described as a Satanic Horror film about the man. On the cover, it shows the actor dressed in robes and there is an inverted pentagram behind him.

----------


## Lokia_Zos

"Crowley" was first released in Britain as "Chemical Wedding". It's stupid and inacurate, but very entertaining. Bruce Dickinson from Iron Maiden was involved in making the thing. I own it.

----------


## chronazon

I have a vhsw of this 90's movie called equinox, that I think is very crowley influenced
it should be a cult classic

----------

