#  >  > Occult Discussion >  >  > Angels & Demons >  >  > Angels >  >  >  Everybody has a Guardian Angel

## angeress

This is a known fact to many Occultists, esp of the white variety. A guardian angel is a spirit who has had many lives on Earth and due to good karma has finished it cycle of re-birth.
You can sense you guardian angel by the voice in your mind telling you what is right or wrong. Unfortunately many seem to ignore this sixth sense. :Sad:

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## angeress

I must disagree, for there is only one angel per person.

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## ZeldaFitz

I have to agree with angeress, we are given our Angel at birth, only one. Spirit guides can be more than one, but not the Guardian Angel.

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## angeress

Thank you for agreeing with me, for it is Spirit guides which can be several but a Guardian Angel is only one. A Guardian Angel, is not a being the person has known in the earthy cycle of their existance at all, but a being always looking out for them.
A great medium will exactly know who their own Guardian Angel is. :Cool:

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## ZeldaFitz

you're right.

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## Gazeeboh

So is there one angel for one person?
Or can a really awesome big shot angel look after ten people?
Why do the Angels that we have watching over us, let bad things occur?
Do the spirit guides and the angels work together or do they have separate employers/agendas?
Do the Angels all have the same rank or do some of us have better angels than others do?
If our guardian angel isn't do his job so well, can we request a new one?
Can the Guardian Angel be banished?
What exactly is the point of having such a thing in your company?
Who or what is in charge of the Angel deployment?

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## angeress

A good question, but Guardian Angels are allocated to each person due to the upper forces that allocated this. Unfortunately bad things happen because a person usually ends up ignoring its angel.

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## Gazeeboh

Personally I think angels and demons are both self serving dicks. They are just on opposite ends of the spectrum. Both are ruthless and manipulative in their dealings. Demons are sneaky and Angels are self-righteous bullies. We humans have to stick together and watch out for ourselves.

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## Azaziel

Have you considered that your Guardian Angel is none other than your own higher self?

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## ZeldaFitz

I think most people know this, or I should say most occultists, it is all metaphors, and all within.

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## Azaziel

> it is all metaphors, and all within.


Agreed.

For you yourself are the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory.

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## ZeldaFitz

Yes and yes, and your soul can not be stolen or devoured.

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## ZeldaFitz

Tolka it does not work like that, you will only see your Angel in times of stress or need, and they do not come in Angel form in the physical, they will come in a human form, but you will see them in the astral. A guardian angel is appointed at birth and stays with you forever whether you believe or not. It is not the same as the Arch Angels, totally different subject.

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## ZeldaFitz

I should also state that I have had quite a bit of encounters with Angels that come in human form, in many ways. I could write a book about it. The Higher self is your guardian angel and could be construed as such, but then it means your higher self leaves your body and assumes a human form, to show up and then disappear, and that would mean we were capable of manifesting a totally separate form which is not possible.They are not the same as a spirit guide.

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## ZeldaFitz

Angeress was talking about guardian Angels appointed at birth, which most spiritual people believe, children call them imaginary playmates, and others make the mistake thinking they are guides. A guide also shows up at birth but there will be many guides through out your life as you change, a Guardian Angel is considered an an Angel from God or Heaven, ans stays with you till you die , a non believer will call it coincidence, a CM will call them the higher self, although the Arch Angels are called on in rituals, a Theosophist will call them the voice or God within, but I digress. Angeress is talking about a Guardian Angel or Angel Guardian that is given to us at birth have you not ever had something happened to you in terrible times where a person has shown up and disappeared after aiding or offering comfort? This is the Guardian Angel she is talking about. The higher self is the pure enlightened part of us that we try desperately to connect to in order to ascend to a higher level, the guardian angel is a separate entity, so this is why people will mistake the higher self with a guardian angel as rituals connect the two, but the word is wrong, it should not be confused with the birth appointed guardian angel. I am a oxymoron, I may believe there is no personal God, but I do believe and have come into contact with Angels, in my case I do not believe they come from the Christian God. I need coffee, and I will probably take some time off and not interject any more of my thoughts.

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## Belphebe

My Aunt and I were driving to the market, and a car crossed the line and came right at us, my Aunt could not swerve, but our car was lifted up by an unseen hand, and pushed out of the way. We both saw a tall figure in white. My Aunt said it was an Angel. Zelda if you do not believe in a personal God, where do you think they come from or do you think they always were here? 


Guardian angel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## ZeldaFitz

I believe in a divine power but having said that, I believe we created this divine power and the Angels who were always around were manifested from our subconscious, we actually conjured these guardian Angels before we were born,we tapped into the energy field of the Angels. I have to go, had an accident with my computer and am using my friend's but time is up.

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## crowley666

I agree entirely. zeldas got on her hookshot boomerrang brain drain.

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## ZeldaFitz

yes i do. lol.

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## crowley666

zelda my holy guarding angel came to me as a human but not in the astral as you stated. I really think I'm unique to have figured so much on my own with out guidance. do you know any other cases where a person met an angel in the material world directally? nevermind, I think i got this figured out now.haha.good to be an adept.

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## Sara D

No that is not an Angel, it is a lost soul. I have known Zelda for over five years, and as I stated she is dark I am light and she is very private, so for her to even post at all is a miracle. lol. I was in a terrible accident and I was in the emergency room waiting to die, a beautiful black woman came over and took my hand and said you will live it is not your time. I turned my head for a moment and she was gone. The nurse came over and I mumbled who was that woman talking to me, the nurse said what woman, I explained to her what had happened and she said honey I have been right here there was no one by you, it was an Angel believe or not Tolka, they are real. They come to believers but they also come to non believers.

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## Belphebe

Yes they come when you least expect it, they look like homeless, businessmen, elderly women with pure white skin and white hair, and nondescript. I believe as Zelda believes, and my Dad does too, but Sara D believes they come from God, makes for good dinner conversation when we have our yearly meet up.

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## ZeldaFitz

Hell yeah, a Satanist me, a OTO member Belasko, an Alexandrian Wiccan Bel, and a light worker Sara D, make for strange dinner companions. Belasko pissed me off so bad one night I poured a plate of spaghetti on his head, but he still loves me.

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## ZeldaFitz

I have had that happen once, when I was all alone and struggling to make ends meet. I was in a park crying, because all I had to eat was an apple and a cracker. This well dressed woman with white hair and pure white skin sat down beside me, grabbed my hand and said it will be all right. I never told her what was wrong, but she pressed a envelope in my hand got up and walked away. I looked in the envelope and there was 500.00, I looked up and as she was walking she just vanished into thin air. My life turned around that day, I got the job I was waiting for and got a grant for college. I have had numerous encounters since then, but that was the only time money was involved. I don't know why mine is a well dressed grandmother, maybe it is what I conjured when I needed a guardian Angel and that fit. I have a friend who's guardian angel looks like a punk rocker, it is what we relate to I guess. Yes we all know each other, mores the pity.

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## crowley666

sounds nice. Mine never gives me money. Just enourmous insights, Portable pyramids and legs all out the body and in the couch.

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## ZeldaFitz

hey insight is just as important. who knows with your insight they may decide it is time to give you money.  :Smile:

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## crowley666

I realize now I have theknoledge and wisdom neccesary to join the oto and rise through the ranks very quickly. This is a stupid quistion but what are some minor to medium benefits to joining, no need to tell me the big one, I know that all ready. Thanks Zelda.

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## ZeldaFitz

The OTO? I was never part of that order, but I would imagine not only insight, but the ability to become very powerful magickal wise, the pitfalls as with any order, politics. It is the curtailing of not being flexible to an initiate as their word is law, and they are not open to new ideas. I rose through the ranks very quickly also, and I guess I was a bit spoiled, but as soon I as voiced a few complaints, they didn't want to hear it, so I left. They still email me, and one day I may go back, but not for a long time.

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## crowley666

ahhh I see. sorry about the oto assertion. gotmixxed up. hmmm. This is very interesting, Could you give me some insights on joining an order based on your experiences. ok thanks. what did you complain about?

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## ZeldaFitz

I wanted to mix up the rituals a bit, add a little new insight, and I was voicing a complaint about a dick head there who was teaching the Enochian to kids on the side, who knew absolutely nothing about anything. It was impossible to stay and deal with the guy. He eventually got himself in trouble and was kicked out. I have to say the friendships, and the camaraderie and the knowledge that one learns. You find that all you have been reading and studying finally makes sense and it all comes together once you are accepted in the order. I will be honest I have a short fuse, am stubborn as all hell, and never back down, plus I can have a sarcastic mouth, was one of my little flaws in the order.

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## crowley666

i think me and you are on the same page, I'll have to think long and hard on this one. Thanks so much Zelda. How many are like me that figure it out on their own, how many know but don'tand how many are just told the truth by the order?

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## ZeldaFitz

I think there are a lot like you, and me It is just we sometimes forget it is possible to learn on our own. I did learn a lot, but as i said on another thread, the order served it's purpose, take you time, and don't rush anything.

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## crowley666

if I may ask, how many figure out on their own statisticwise?

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## ZeldaFitz

yep.......

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## crowley666

I see.....

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## ZeldaFitz

> I see.....


Yes I think you do.

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## ZeldaFitz

> zeldafitz :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\
> 
> there you go nice charge up for ya


thank you.

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## MissRachel

so im very new here and dont know much of anything about this stuff...does everyone really have a guardian angel? i mean how do you know? and if we do why do bad things still happen in ones life?

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## Emma

you are born with a guardian angel, and you need to get in touch with it, they usually only show up in an emergency or when you are in desperation, they will come if you call them. bad things happen for many reasons, it could be you chose it as a life lesson, you hurt some one in a past life, etc. you will know of your angel in dreams, when you are rescued at the split second, a guardian angel is not like a guide, a spirit guide is just that, guide, and they are there as a counselor, a guardian angel is for protection. if bad things happen it is because you don't believe, or it is your time to die, but they are there when you pass over.

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## ZeldaFitz

I know you do She devil, Emma teaches this, and you and she are like sisters any way.

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## redmonk

Angels are forces of Divine Nature, and are not at our disposal to satisfy our desires. And perhaps out of ignorance, some people teach angelic rituals intended to cause harm to a specific person . In the High Magic, there is a ritual that aims to contact the Guardian Angel, for who practiced this ritual fully. it is very complicated, it takes about 6 months to complete. It's called Ritual of the Sacred Magic of Abramelin. I've had trouble with pseudo-occultists who do not agree when I tell them, for example that Angels has no form, much less human form. This shape, with wings and human, artistic design was invented in the Council of niceia centuries ago. It is too easy to assume that a being like us but with wings they must be higher. Angels are energy and because they are intelligent energy they can shape the way they want, but it is not common to use any form that pleases the humans.
*Angels do not have the slightest interest in being contacted by humans* and I assure you that some have a quite hostile relationship with the human race.
There was a time when i Practiced magic which dealt with demons, and when a ritual was not practiced the right way ,the most that happened is that there was no manifestation of the demon evoked. But in the Ritual of Abramelin, for example, the first time I tried to practice it I made some incorrect procedures and because of this I was sick for two months and if it was not my speed to get help I probably would have died. The second time I have performed the ritual all procedures were done properly and then I got the desired results. Angels do not forgive when the ritual is not done right. We can conclude that Angels have made me much more harm than Demons. I can recommend the movie
"The profecy", 1, 2 and 3, the angels referred to humans as "talking monkeys" .

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## zero

I think the hga is just a term and not really necessarily an angel. you do seem to muddle them up; the hga from abramelin is not an angel like Michael. the hga is the true self, where as Michael is an entity outside ones self.

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## devakxes

Indeed. Crowley calls the hga '' the secret and true self''.
It is this way because we cannot understand yet our spark of divinity - so it takes a form that is suitable to our paradigm/mind. In this case - most people in western society associate something like that with a Holy Guardian Angel.

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## redmonk

Im sorry to disappoint you but I belong to an ancient order of Goetia and everybody that is a TRUE MAGE, knows that Crowley was a lunatic , so he didnt know the REAL Ritual of Abrammelin , or what it is really about, there is no connection what so ever with our higher self.

Here we go again.... 
Aleister Crowley was certainly a crazy and perverted megalomaniac he created the Golden Dawn and ruined the lives of all his disciples, and still managed to have two wives go to the asylum. He was a Terrible painter, terrible writer and poet. All his work is disgusting, foul uses terms and in many ways the issues are unrelated, as if the author entered in some kind of paranoia. 

His side took the extreme to be bisexual, and came during a ritual to eat the excrement of his "Scarlet Woman" (name removed of Revelation given to the woman he used in his sexual perversions).

In Cairo he wrote "The Book of the Law," a confusing and absurd garbage that neither he understood half, obviously because it was written when he was completely numb of drugs. Nevertheless he tried to convince the world that the work was dictated to him by a demon called "Aiwass" that would be his "guardian angel." The book was well received by the Ordo Templi Orientis, "and from that time, they adopted and thelemite philosophy and Crowley went on to direct it. This order created a method of magic called "fri magick", or sex magic, that was from group sex acts during the rituals, even the simple masturbation on "talismans."

He liked to draw attention, going out in public with his costumes with the title of "most evil man in the world." In addition, he identified with the beast 666.
He was a friend and lover of Gerald Gardner (who created the Wicca, a cult like Thelema), and together were responsible for the current trivialization of esotericism.

Absurdities written by Crowley:
Without doubt it was a megalomaniac, as was said to be reincarnation of Dr John Dee (who invented the Enochian alphabet), and also be the reincarnation of an Egyptian high priest, and even of Eliphas Levi ( here there would have a chance of metempsychosis, but would still be a big jump before arriving in Crowley!).
Was said to be an avatar of the new era, where would establish a new cult on earth. Much like the ideal Hippie, who also believe that someday humans will stop working and be limited to smoking marijuana and being promiscuous.
Watch this paradox; enough to be hilarious, and bizarre. See what he says in the Book of Law: "wine and strange drugs are not harmful to anyone who is doing his true will. They only poison people who have cancer of original sin. If you are really free, so you can take cocaine simply as a chewing taffy. There is no test for a lesser soul than their attitude to drugs .... Let the world take opium, hashish and the rest, those who are subject to abuse them would be better dead. "

And some time later near the end of life, he writes: "There is no yearning for (the drug) when I'm free from care, to reach a minimum physiological, boring. I need a massage every day to get up and move, a supply of books, and forced a schedule of visits, company, food and drink.

And, unfortunately, some people refer to him as the greatest magician of the twentieth century ...

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## zero

I dislike what i hear of Crowley too, but he knew much and was very smart. just because i don't like the man does not mean he didn't have anything to contribute. also Crowley didn't create the GD, and from the evidence i see or read/hear Westcott was the founder. the falling out of the London temple was more of a revolt; the other temples did not like the Crowley image or Mathers leadership.

I do not really think Crowley had anything new to say, only new to society at large.

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## redmonk

He was a smart man, but as any smart man under the effect of drugs.

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## Vir Sapiens

Everyone has their opinion on Crowley, for this topic I think that the concept of the HGA was never intended to be interpreted as a distinct entity in its own right. It was merely the anthropomorphizing of the concept of perfect will and intuition put into a format that people could grasp more easily. It's easier to say "Oh the HGA." than " Oh that part of you that guides you along the path according to influences and stimuli that you can't always consciously perceive." The latter is a mouthful and is hard to conceptualize and harder still to develop. It's much easier to make it into a entity and ritualize the conversation with this entity when in fact you're simply getting in touch with a higher facet of your perception.

As for Crowley himself I can't argue that he was an addict and came to a very sticky end but, I don't think he was nearly as addled and incompetent as many people make him out to be. Unfortunately in this society we have a tendency to equate any sort of mental instability, whether drug related or genetic, with idiocy and an inability to function intellectually. Many have pointed out certain technical inconsistencies in the borrowed techniques he took from other schools in the formation of Thelema. I would posit that those "mistakes" are not mistakes but, intentional deviations from the old forms. 

I think if Crowley was guilty of anything it was of digging too deeply and pushing his boundaries too far. Every time he deviated from Western mores and societal norms for behavior he allowed himself fresher perspective and freedom from narrow perceptions that are forced upon us by governments, media, and education. In the end he pushed too far and looked too deep. I think whatever he found he drowned himself in alcohol and heroin trying to forget it and thus came to be both revered and reviled as an innovator and a charlatan. 

That's my take on the man anyway. I enjoy his writing and his philosophy. I utilize his rituals because they work. Still I can see the bias against him and I can understand it since historically he did very little to inspire confidence and he certainly deviated from the ascetic lifestyle we tend to attribute men of power. I don't think that makes him irrelevant just different. My own experiences with magic have shown me very little that is light and good in this existence. Oh it's there but, the dark things and the scary things make it hard to find. I imagine if I had the courage to look even deeper I might end up like that, half mad with the other half doped up to keep the darkest of the things I have seen from bubbling up into the light like a new foulness.

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## redmonk

> Everyone has their opinion on Crowley, for this topic I think that the concept of the HGA was never intended to be interpreted as a distinct entity in its own right. It was merely the anthropomorphizing of the concept of perfect will and intuition put into a format that people could grasp more easily. It's easier to say "Oh the HGA." than " Oh that part of you that guides you along the path according to influences and stimuli that you can't always consciously perceive." The latter is a mouthful and is hard to conceptualize and harder still to develop. It's much easier to make it into a entity and ritualize the conversation with this entity when in fact you're simply getting in touch with a higher facet of your perception.
> 
> As for Crowley himself I can't argue that he was an addict and came to a very sticky end but, I don't think he was nearly as addled and incompetent as many people make him out to be. Unfortunately in this society we have a tendency to equate any sort of mental instability, whether drug related or genetic, with idiocy and an inability to function intellectually. Many have pointed out certain technical inconsistencies in the borrowed techniques he took from other schools in the formation of Thelema. I would posit that those "mistakes" are not mistakes but, intentional deviations from the old forms. 
> 
> I think if Crowley was guilty of anything it was of digging too deeply and pushing his boundaries too far. Every time he deviated from Western mores and societal norms for behavior he allowed himself fresher perspective and freedom from narrow perceptions that are forced upon us by governments, media, and education. In the end he pushed too far and looked too deep. I think whatever he found he drowned himself in alcohol and heroin trying to forget it and thus came to be both revered and reviled as an innovator and a charlatan. 
> 
> That's my take on the man anyway. I enjoy his writing and his philosophy. I utilize his rituals because they work. Still I can see the bias against him and I can understand it since historically he did very little to inspire confidence and he certainly deviated from the ascetic lifestyle we tend to attribute men of power. I don't think that makes him irrelevant just different. My own experiences with magic have shown me very little that is light and good in this existence. Oh it's there but, the dark things and the scary things make it hard to find. I imagine if I had the courage to look even deeper I might end up like that, half mad with the other half doped up to keep the darkest of the things I have seen from bubbling up into the light like a new foulness.


High Magic has everything to do with perception, you must be 100% sober to contact angels (Assuming that one have the real ritual), for example if you make one mistake you die, as simple as that . 

Angels do not forgive, in fact there are many ways which they can kill someone, one example is to drain all the blood vapor or life force and then disperse it in the air to the entities that are present . 

Some rituals are so complicated that they involve the use of certain music notes combined with three different languages , including Senzar the language of the Initiates , imagine the difficulty of that and multiply by 10.

Crowley rituals are as effective as any invented black magic rituals , of course he didnt know the real ancient rituals, as Papus (GÃÂ©rard Encausse) did .

It is very easy to do harm to someone using black magic, but it is very hard to do it with High Magic that either can be black or white depending on the intention of the operator.

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## Vir Sapiens

Now this is only my personal theory and not in any way shape or form meant to disparage any one path or viewpoint. I don't believe there is a distinction between High magic and Crowley's rituals anymore than there is a real distinction between one part of the ocean and another. I think that 90% of a ritual is flavor, a means of distinguishing a belief system within a larger practice. The notes and the words are the same as the "lesser" incantations of Crowley. That is to say it is not the incantation but the vibration that matters. Now this is not meant as a disparagement of your technique, in fact I applaud your dedication and your study and the commitment you have made to achieve the level of understanding and knowledge that you possess. I merely posit that what you manipulate is no different than what any other student of the occult manipulates when they enact their rituals.

The benefit you gain via training and dedication to your craft is that you have a concrete set of rules and a very particular understanding of the energies you manipulate. These rules, many of which are arbitrary I think, give you a framework that your mind can handle. I theorize, and I must stress that it is only a theory, that some of Crowley's more deviant behaviors may have been a direct result of him coming upon some truths without a proper framework to put them in.

I don't think it is entirely fair to dismiss Crowley out of hand. It cannot be argued that by the yardsticks of many occult traditions he misunderstood a great many things but, the things that he did understand and the new framework he put them in are important and valid with regards to the continued evolution of occult practice. By no means is he the end all be all of occult knowledge but neither was he merely an addict and a dabbler. Too many people, myself included, have a tendency to gloss over his many faults but, by that same token I think too many people tend to look over some of the things that he did add to our understanding even if the only thing that one can take away from his work was that the old ways can be reinterpreted successfully.

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## redmonk

I respect your opinion of course,you seem to be very clever, but in my opinion what he did was a sort of involution of the occult practices and the banalizattion of magical practices.

But in a certain way this was a good thing because it kept real magic away from profanes. 

I think the last truth that he found was .
"Dont Do drugs " In fact he wrote about this in his final moments.

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## Vir Sapiens

> I respect your opinion of course,you seem to be very clever, but in my opinion what he did was a sort of involution of the occult practices and the banalizattion of magical practices.
> 
> But in a certain way this was a good thing because it kept real magic away from profanes. 
> 
> I think the last truth that he found was .
> "Dont Do drugs " In fact he wrote about this in his final moments.


I can agree with the bit about the drugs. I think he, like many others, realized that some drugs can give you a "short cut" to certain perceptual states that normally take a lot of discipline and training to learn how to achieve. It's a costly "short cut" to be sure and not one I would recommend to anyone. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on his impact to occult studies however, I appreciate your points and the manner in which you present them. I think it boils down to different perceptions though as opposed to any fundamental differences, for instance you see the banalization of magic in many of Crowley's works whereas I recognize what you are talking about but, I see it as an introduction of ritual into the banal, creating magic in the moment. In the end neither of us will be around in these incarnations to see what history has to say on the subject and it may never really be settled. That is why I always like discussions about Crowley, you get a wide variety of opinions.

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## redmonk

> I can agree with the bit about the drugs. I think he, like many others, realized that some drugs can give you a "short cut" to certain perceptual states that normally take a lot of discipline and training to learn how to achieve. It's a costly "short cut" to be sure and not one I would recommend to anyone. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on his impact to occult studies however, I appreciate your points and the manner in which you present them. I think it boils down to different perceptions though as opposed to any fundamental differences, for instance you see the banalization of magic in many of Crowley's works whereas I recognize what you are talking about but, I see it as an introduction of ritual into the banal, creating magic in the moment. In the end neither of us will be around in these incarnations to see what history has to say on the subject and it may never really be settled. That is why I always like discussions about Crowley, you get a wide variety of opinions.


I dont like to talk about Crowley I think he simply does not worth it . 

ThatÃÂ´s why I prefer to talk Papus and Eliphas Levi , as you know they are the base.

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## Vir Sapiens

I once had the opportunity to buy the first English edition copy of The History of Magic but the price was simply too high. Levi is, like most scholars, quite dry but very informative. I think his work is an invaluable research tool and as you say the base.

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## grim789

Hmm guardian angel is something i havent thought to much on just beacause it could be the thing telling us right and wrong is ourselves our own minds. This is my theory but then again there could be spirits that do watch over us from time to time this is somehthing i will have to think on.

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## VinÃÂ©

I think I have a guardian demon rather than a guardian angel...

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## zero

I don't think so. 

a definition : 

demon, daemon, and daimon all derive from Greek δαίμων (daimÃÂ´n), the word for a spirit that served as a link between the human and divine spheres.

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## Vir Sapiens

Even if one subscribes to an entirely Judeo-Christian paradigm when it comes to demons and angels there still wouldn't be a difference per se, being that the classic definition of demon in that paradigm is one of the fallen host allied with Satan/Lucifer. There is great debate on whether Satan and Lucifer are interchangeable in that context but, for most people utilizing that dogma they are. So all demons, at least of the Judeo-Christian variety, are also angels.

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## grbree

In my experience everyone does have a "gaurdian angel" they dont neccasarily guard but relay messages from the person to ..... well i dont know quite possibly the deity they pray too or maybe something else.

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## redmonk

"everyone does have a "gaurdian angel" they dont neccasarily guard but relay messages from the person to"

Why do you think an Angel will bother guarding anyone ? wake up.....
No one haves a "guardian angel" there is no such thing, we are on our own as any living creature. Angels do exist but they are also creatures just like us and much more evolved , and on the contrary they hate humans. They call humans " bag of fluids".

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## Norin

OK first of all it seems that people in this thread use the same word (angel) for VERY different things - from something that is good to something that is neither independent to something that hates humans with a passion, and also from something that's like a human with feathery wings, all the way to shapeless, or ball or energy. Finally some mean angels as real and "out there" and others mean it as a personification of something mental, internal, or in any case "of the Self" (not a separate entity).

I would say let's first agree that we might be talking about different things when we say Angels, and even more so about HGA's.

Now, regardless of any theoretical stuff, what may or may not be out there, WHAT exactly is the practical use of this information ? Can HGA's be contacted, if so then HOW ?

And for people who have contacted them already, can you share some experiences ? Like a Before / After comparison ? Was it hard to do ? Was it worth it ?

Personally, I also find the concept of Guides fascinating, even more so that HGA's. Seems to me like an Angel is there for physical protection, like a last line of defense, where as contact with some Guides might make sure you don't end up in dangerous situations in the first place, by being where you're supposed to be, and doing what you're supposed to do, to make the best of yourself.

Opinions on this anyone ?

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## Norin

> I dont have a guardian angel but multiple spirit guides. they are not in shape of people but as animals. I also has a spirit teacher, he is an old and wise Oak.


Ever tested any of them in some objective way?

(Don't mean to doubt what you're saying, just a habit I got from my Remote Viewing research, where people have found they can test it and get clear numbers on accuracy)

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## Norin

> I have contact with them now and then, and they have provided me correct information that I needed.


Cool. May I ask by what method you have contact ? I myself have no contact with any guide (that I know of at least) although I could sure use some right about now  :Smile:

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## Norin

> Well, I use the drum as a trance-inducing instrument but it also works with didgeridoos, rattles, rain makers, singing bowls and so on. It is a kind of astral travel and when I am about to enter the "state of consciousness" I visualize entering a tunnel or cave. There is two ways to go, to the upper world or the lower world and the one I travel to the most is the lower world wich is where I met my power animals. But I met my teacher in the upper world.
> 
> It can also be made easier with hallucinogens such as peyote, shrooms, ayahuasca, seeds or herbs. But I don't promote druguse, just saying...


Alright, thank you for the info. I only have some cheapo low quality frame drums that I make myself, so those may not be so good, but I do have 2 real handmade Tibetan singing bowls, how would I go about doing what you said with those?

I mean how long might it take to enter that state ? Do I have to do any sort of special 3rd eye opening stuff before I start, or just sit down close eyes use bowls and fly away ? Can you link to some instructions for this ?

No risk corrupting me by promoting hallucinogens, I'm already a happy user and enthusiast, I just have no shamans around to show me the ropes, so that's why I'm asking  :Smile:

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## Astral Eye

How can you commune with your guardian angel. I beleave it has spoke to me before, but it is like when you say, think or do something, and you don't know why, but I would like to ask my angel somthing.

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