#  >  > Occult Discussion >  >  > Occult Training Grounds >  >  >  sigil and geometric magic

## ShadowCrest

I've been interested in this sort of magic since I was little, and when a friend got me hooked on fullmetal alchemist, I became fascinated with the complex circles that were drawn throughout the series. I've tried doing some research on the subject, and the little information I found on sigil magic was basically having to create simple commands that were simple and concise, convert it into a shorter phrase condensed into one word, and write it out with a custom set of sigils and then combine the characters and charge it. As far as geometric magic goes, I found squat. So can any of you guys help me out with these 2 areas of magic?

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## daecon

Those aren't sigils. They're Magic Circles. A sigil by the AOS method encodes a command into a graphic symbol in order to systematically remove it from the physical world and force it into the esoteric. It's a very common technique in Chaos Magick so it's easy to find a lot of information on it.

A magic circle like those seen in FMA attract and contain magic in order to focus it. The ones seen in the anime are fictional and subject to the whims of the artists. Historical magic circles were much simpler, though they could be embellished with additional symbols. The logic of the series must assume that the more complicated circles encode information about the desired form of the transmutation.

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## NemnochAdore

There are sigils galore if you just research it, from planetary seals, to those found in the goetia and lesser keys of solomon .
For geometric magik, maybe the Buddhist mandalas are similar in nature

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## ShadowCrest

> There are sigils galore if you just research it, from planetary seals, to those found in the goetia and lesser keys of solomon .
> For geometric magik, maybe the Buddhist mandalas are similar in nature


I never said I had issues finding sigiils, but I am having problems finding actual information on them and techniques for using/making them.




> Those aren't sigils. They're Magic Circles. A sigil by the AOS method encodes a command into a graphic symbol in order to systematically remove it from the physical world and force it into the esoteric. It's a very common technique in Chaos Magick so it's easy to find a lot of information on it.
> 
> A magic circle like those seen in FMA attract and contain magic in order to focus it. The ones seen in the anime are fictional and subject to the whims of the artists. Historical magic circles were much simpler, though they could be embellished with additional symbols. The logic of the series must assume that the more complicated circles encode information about the desired form of the transmutation.


I know the ones from FMA were created for entertainment purposes, but I'm interested in the theory behind the magic circles. I'm having a hard time finding legitimate information on this though, so if any of you have links that can point me in the right direction, I'd greatly appreciate it  :Smile:

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## BalanceDragon

Many modern or semi-modern sigils were determined and drawn using the applicable planetary squares associated with the spirit involved - however, sigils and their use is far older than the contrivance of planery squares to be sure of. Sigils were originally (as I was taught and once read) meant to be the 'essence of the spirit' involved. It is as powerful as using the spirit's true name, and when using in combination with this, is a powerful method of compelling said spirit. Many swear by jewish references that their inventors or discoverors were they themselves jewish, but records of sigils can be found prior to this in ancient Greece and Sumeria.
If you want some interesting sigils, check out Faustian magic and books like "Magia naturalis et innaturalis, oder dreifacher HÃÂ¶llenzwang", or "Johannes Tritheim’s Abt Zu Spanheim Wunderbuch". You may find where this all began as far as the western influences are concerned by obtaining a copy of the Picatrix, which is now fully translated and available. There are books listed in Barnes and Nobles as well as Amazon which are written about the modern processes involving sigils, and though I'm not overly impressed by them, you might be.
If there is a specific sigil you are looking for, just mention it here in response and I will see if I have it in my library of occult books and manuscripts.

Good luck in your endeavors,
BalanceDragon

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## Deus_Ex_Asmo

Sigils work by combining symbols to form a representation of a concept - or at least, that's one school of thought, as i'm sure you're aware. You can do the same with magick circles and other forms of sacred geometry. Here are some basic principles and resources to help you out:

1) Some combined symbols can have triple or quadrouple, or even infinite meaning. For instance, a simple hexagram can easily also stand for the unification of all four alchemical elements. Metatron's Cube is a decent example of this.

2) Use symbols that stand for alchemical processes in the creation of your glyphs/sigils/circles, when you have a specific intent for something thought out. A complete list of alchemical symbols and such can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemical_symbol

3) You might want to look up the meaning of specific symbols, or rather the multiple meanings and applications of specific symbols, like stars (eg, pentagram, hexagram, dodecagram). You might also consider "corrupting" them. Gurdjeiff has a corruption of the nonagram called the "enneagram" - see this: http://www.promart.com/images/9gramBig.jpg. 
3.a) Also, there are specific kinds of "stars" that you should familiarize yourself with; eg, unicursal (all connected points), concave/inverted, etc. A non-unicursal star has the elements of multiple stars in some schools of thought, (since it's mad up of a combination of polygons [and sometimes polygrams!]) so you might use this to your advantage or keep it in mind during creation. For instance, one might make a decagram out of two unicursal pentagrams, or a dodecagram out of two non-unicursal hexagrams. 
3.b) Learn about placing things in multiple shapes (eg, a star in a circle, or a star in two circles), and special shapes like the Vesica Piscus. Also, familiarize yourself with angles. Also, research the connection between numbers and shapes, the significance of certain numbers, etc.

Excellent examples of what you're looking for can be found in the Goetia. Here are some examples:
http://www.thecontrarianmedia.com/wp.../04/goetia.jpg
http://meta-religion.com/Esoterism/images/pent.gif - (the words in the center are various angles).

And, here are a few things to google:
Enochian
Magick Circles
The Magus, or, Celestial Intelligencer - This can be found on the below site, by the way.

resources:
http://www.holybooks.com/category/alchemy/ 
http://www.scribd.com/doc/415908/ban...igils-symbols#

An interesting glyph table, based heavily on numerology: 
http://media.photobucket.com/image/r...a/Glyphs-3.jpg

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