#  >  > Occult Discussion >  >  > Angels & Demons >  >  >  Goetia?

## RainbowBridge

Anybody had any working with the Goetia? I'm not drawing that damn circle just to cast a spell, unless the world is going to end otherwise or something... lol. LEMEGETON, Part 1: Goetia

-RB

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## Vir Sapiens

It's important to remember that when working with the Goetia you have to work with those spirits on their terms. You don't get the option to dictate the ritual setting. It's not so much that the world will end as much as it is that it just plain won't work or it will work but, you won't have the means of confining an unruly spirit or protection from it. My advice, having had some experience with it, is to follow the ritual formula exactly or be prepared to be severely disappointed.

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## Veritas_Requiem

> Anybody had any working with the Goetia? I'm not drawing that damn circle just to cast a spell, unless the world is going to end otherwise or something... lol. LEMEGETON, Part 1: Goetia
> 
> -RB


i think that it is important to get the general gist of what the purpose behind the ritual aspects are... aside from that, i don't think that it is absolutely necessary to follow the operation as directed. If you have a chance look at Bardon's "The practice of Magical Evocation", it explains a lot about the intent of the old grimoires. The one thing that is important to remember is that the spirits comply to the judeo-christian god. I.e. AGLA ADONAI IEHOVA etc. I have reworked the ritual in a few different ways, with successful results. Such as cutting out the lengthy repetitive droll of the incantations, and limiting the use of the traditional tools. If you don't have a lot of experience with evocation, however, i would suggest doing as Vir Sapiens reccommended. Performing the rite as described helps focus the will in such a way that it essentially switches the gears in your mind. The kind of dedication that it takes to comply with such strange requests is important until you can flip that switch on and off on your own...

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## devakxes

Normally when I have worked with the Goetia, it wasn't using any of the names of God but my own Higher Self. It essentially boils down to a matter of Will. However, why command them?

Typically I make an exchange with them of some sort in return for their services. I've only ever worked my Will with Ashtoreth because he did not respond to me so nicely. 

Correspondences should be applied here. There is an online goetia chart if you search for it. I normally mix and blend magickal techniques based on the spell. So for example, with working with the Goetia... I normally make/''summon'' a circle, call upon the elements/quarters, then do a evocation of the Goetia. For me there have been times when the Goetia have just refused to come. Sometimes they are unwilling to do requests. Typically they react just like any being would in regards of speaking to them and your actions... so if you meet them with greetings and you're all respectful, normally they'll be respectful as well. 

A lot of the psychology of the Goetia deals with the symbology of the character they hold. So if they have two heads, they might have a split personality.. etc. This may mean that the Goetia spirit you summon won't always look as it is said to look like.

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## grbree

its a good idea to make the circles unless you know for fact you have a will of goddamn iron. If it feels like youve lost all hope of coming out it without turning into its b***h try making a deal of some sort .For instance letting it take a kind of *residency* in exchange for protection from other entitys and even control of other ones.

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## denverdude

From what I have read, many prominent occultists seemed to believe that the Goetia was more useful for self-exploration than the summoning of external entities. I myself used it as a tool when I was studying Jungian psychology, and found that the entities summoned closely resembled many of the archetypes he described, so I believe this may be the case. It may, however, be that the entities summoned were just behaving within the paradigm that my will was imposing on them.

As for drawing the circles, I believe it to be a necessity for someone new to the goetic style. For me, magic is not a pick and choose kinda thing. In my opinion, one should attain some form of mastery over any aspect of the art before they begin altering it. Goetic magic is full of blinds, but without serious practice it is very hard to determine what is necessary, what protects you, and what is just plain BS.

Best wishes!

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## devakxes

I keep thinking I am not working with beginners so I forget the warnings.  :Tongue:

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## andros

In time a harmonic relationship with the spirits of Goetia will be
formed, and you will be able to summon them without ritual or magic
words. Let me give you an example of what I mean. I once conjured the
Spirit Astaroth, and asked for help in achieving my financial goal at the
time. Within three days, I was offered a book contract. Did I first consult a
table of planetary hours, draw a magic circle upon the floor, place lit
candles at the four cardinal points, or spend hours in quiet meditation
before working the Magic?
The answer is, No.
I was standing at my bedroom window looking at the street outside. It had
been raining, and the road was still wet. I suddenly felt the moment was
right. I called to Astaroth and asked for his help. Once this harmonic
relationship is established, the spirits will always be with you, and will tell
you when the time is right to work your Magic.

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## devakxes

That is also a special case, in that sense there may have already been a relationship with Astaroth or the demon may have been calling out to you.

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## andros

Yes, a relationship with Astaroth had already been established.

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## Norin

Somewhat on-topic I hope, this is not about myself, but a very young friend of mine who "dabbles" in the occult, has asked me if I have various books dealing with Goetia. Lesser Key of Solomon ans such.

I gave him little other than some warnings, as in my understanding Goetia is one of the most dangerous forms of magic one could possibly get involved in.

I don't recall exactly where I read more about it, as it's been a while, I just remember I've seen several accounts, from unrelated sources, that convinced me to not try it any time soon, as it's not worth the risks.

So compared to other forms of magic, is Goetia more dangerous, or is it all in my mind? We're talking highschool teenagers here, without any wars to fight or families killed by Ninjas to revenge. Should they even be involved in Goetia?

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## NyxRaven

I have managed a relationship with King Paimon over the last year or so.

Norin, the Goetia is not dangerous. Most of the demons are completely human-friendly.

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## devakxes

They aren't dangerous. It only depends on how you expect them to be or how you react to them. I view them as more human than human.

However, they are terrifying forces to deal with if you piss them off.

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## devakxes

The magicians of old who worked with the goetia also used forces against them that the goetia particularly don't like. So this inspired fear which then inspired gnosis or unity with their higher self. They gained mastery over their life depending on the particular aspects that, that specific goetia spirit represents.

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