#  >  > General Discussion >  >  > Occult >  >  >  lords prayer backwards

## aziel

Hello every one, i have benn wondering of the symbolism of reciting the lords prayer backwards. In the book mastering witchcraft by paul huson reciting the lords prayer backwords was part of the initiation rite which symbolized rebelling against the main religion of the country. This seems interesting however i cant get over how satanic it looks. Also the book says in the intro that selling your soul would be a worthwhile trade for powers as such

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## AlchemicEnchanter

Originally when I started in the occult, I was also looking at witchcraft (because it's so common and widely known, until I came to that factor. I have no desire _whatsoever_ to renounce the name of the Lord. So if you would still like to be a practitioner, instead of becoming a witch, become a Sorcerer or Sorceress. This is a widely used term, used to explain a practitioner of magic that takes from what schools of magic he/she likes. I find it to be much better, as I do use some wiccan concepts, but have no desire to acknowledge different deities than my own.

For the record, I'm Christian. And yes, it is possible for both to work hand in hand.

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## AlchemicEnchanter

And remember, if anything looks shady, or like something that may be conceived as Satanic, take a step back and think for yourself. Is it worth the risk? More often than not, it turns out to be not worth it. After all, you cannot fully dedicate yourself to a spell if you are unsure or filled with suspicion or doubt.

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## aziel

Ok, but the book itself dosent seem satanic, im wondering whether reciting the lords prayer backwords means u renounce the lord or you renounce the main religion. If it is the latter then will definitely not do the initiation rite described in the book. Has anyone here used the initiation rite in the book, are they satanists or witches

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## EtuMalku

This is interesting in that this practice is one of Antinomy, which is a practice of anyone serious in the Left Hand Path. An earlier practice by the Yezidi tribes of ancient Persia did also recite their holy book of Middle Eastern beliefs (the Avesta) backwards in order to atone with the Dark as part of keeping a balance.

In Musick this is called Backmasking and I have used it to effectively on some of my recordings.

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## AlchemicEnchanter

Honestly, if it seems well intentioned, then use the spells in the book, but instead find an alternative initiation. If you really want to be a witch mind you. You don't have to go through the initiation to be able to use the spells. I would skip it all together and just call yourself a sorcerer. Keep it neutral. :P 'tis what I do.

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## MiaVenezia

I've never really understood this.

I understand that Christian sects have villainized what they call "heretics," people who believe things that aren't in their doctrine. They claim that we have given in to the devil's temptations. Indeed, the Israelites did this in Exodus, by creating a false idol (the golden calf) and worshipping it.

But just because a bunch of Puritans in the 17th century associated paganism and witches with the devil, doesn't mean that we, as worshippers of our own free will, have to embrace this label. THEY created it for us and they can associate us with the devil, just because we are different, all they want. But please do not let someone else's label identify you.

Will reciting the Lord's prayer backwards affect YOU, your morality, or your relationship with your deities? No, most likely, it will just offend a bunch of Christians and piss people off and give occultists an even worse name than they already have because you defiled something that is considered sacred to many.

Maybe someone can shed some light on when and why it became acceptable for occultists to define themselves by "anti-christianity." Many of our ideals have been in place long, long before the inception of Christianity. In my opinion, we are selling ourselves short.

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## Wolfie

There are psychic/energetic currents that run through this existence that may affect you without you being aware of it.

It's not about occultists defining themselves as "anti-christian", it's simply a practice of managing energy. Mileage may vary.

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## MiaVenezia

So you are saying that performing this ritual will help a magical practitioner to obtain some sort of energy-balance?

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## Wolfie

Magical practitioners should find what works for them and discard the rest.

Some practitioners do not strive for balance, so much as the freeing of bound energies.

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## Sweet

In the satanic Bible the lords prayer backwards is used as an ritual initiation. Nothing much really to it, but I suppose you could go more in depth about it if you choose so.

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## frater apotheosis

> Originally when I started in the occult, I was also looking at witchcraft (because it's so common and widely known, until I came to that factor. I have no desire _whatsoever_ to renounce the name of the Lord. So if you would still like to be a practitioner, instead of becoming a witch, become a Sorcerer or Sorceress. This is a widely used term, used to explain a practitioner of magic that takes from what schools of magic he/she likes. I find it to be much better, as I do use some wiccan concepts, but have no desire to acknowledge different deities than my own.
> 
> For the record, I'm Christian. And yes, it is possible for both to work hand in hand.


You know, that's the entire history of your religion, to steal concepts from pagans, and pay no lip service or tribute except to your own god who gave you none of it.

Your wisdom is priceless.

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## frater apotheosis

> And remember, if anything looks shady, or like something that may be conceived as Satanic, take a step back and think for yourself. Is it worth the risk? More often than not, it turns out to be not worth it. After all, you cannot fully dedicate yourself to a spell if you are unsure or filled with suspicion or doubt.


When you evaluate anything as "Satanic", I'd like you to step back and realize this dualistic concept is overly simplistic, incredibly short sighted, and downright limiting. This religion wasn't around that long, and many religions thousands of years before understood that demons and angels and many other being existed. They not only knew these beings existed, but understood their nature and called upon them accordingly. 

When you start looking at things as "Satanic", realize that's a label dreamed up by Christians and Jews, to scare themselves into submission to the almighty Jehovah, Elohim, or whatever one of the several authors of the new and old testament felt like referring to it as. This is a distinction that was invented by people in the desert thousands of years ago as a method of social control of the populace, and it's entire history has proven it as such.

This whole idea should have been written, more like this, "Look at the beings and powers you intend to call out to, analyze their nature, and ask yourself if it would be appropriate to use entity/power for the change you wish to make by checking if their nature would be constructive or destructive to that purpose".

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## frater apotheosis

> Hello every one, i have benn wondering of the symbolism of reciting the lords prayer backwards. In the book mastering witchcraft by paul huson reciting the lords prayer backwords was part of the initiation rite which symbolized rebelling against the main religion of the country. This seems interesting however i cant get over how satanic it looks. Also the book says in the intro that selling your soul would be a worthwhile trade for powers as such



The act of ritual/ceremonial magick of any kind, is to act as a symbolism for your subconscious mind (until you learn how to bypass ritual magick). Ultimately whatever ritual or ceremonial act of magick you do isn't outright effected by what you do, but what intent you do it with. The only notable exception I feel like giving is when using the incantations of ancient languages like Sanskrit. These languages possess a power in and of themselves to shift things around them (this is evident to anyone who practices with systems in ancient languages). However, in English the words generally don't have any power aside from the intent they are said with. 

The reversal of the lord's prayer has been done in many cultures, even as a part of the black mass that would take place in French Country side quite often during the 1400's and surrounding periods. Just like the black mass itself...It's more effective to throw off the psychological shackles of a dogmatic religion than to do actual magick with. And just like Christianity, it seems to have it's roots in much older traditions.

The thing about selling your soul, well if it provided the kind of results people say it does, there would be thousands of people like Faust running about in our world making it clear that it does work. It does not really provide those results, so I would say keep researching until you find something better for your own development. 

If you want a book that will help you evaluate the occult traditions of Christianity, there is one written by a bishop in the Orthdox Church, Pick up a book titled _Papal Magic_ by Simon it is a book about the occult practices (and beliefs) within the Catholic Church detailed and documented in a very organized fashion. They even have a section in the beginning dealing with the black mass and reversal of the lord's prayer. I have it, and would recommend it to you. I don't normally recommend books, but I think this one would be particularly suited to your interests.

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