Ravana was a hero

[angeress]

Ravana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravana)

Ravana himself was a very intelligent, great man who was a actual real-life man from a couple of millenia ago. He was The King of Lanka and he did treat his people well, his main weakness was the lovely Sita. He feel to much into lust with her, and started to neglect his duties (this is a lesson for all).
What a Occultist has to realise is the social stories being said in HIndu Mythology, and think about the social lessons we can learn.
The lessons of a woman looking her best to keep her man, jealousy gets you nowhere, everybody has a weakness and many, many more.
As for The Ramayan, I have read it and it is a pure sign of this:
The Winners of War always right history.

[jacklin]

Hi,

I agree with you that Ravana was a hero he served his people with great responsibility and he was the true king due to his weakness mata sita he lost in his kingdom and at last he lost the battle

Thanks!

_______________

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[urbane24]

Actually he's been described as a giant and a tyrannic king. He kidnapped Sita.

[RamBhakta]

Ravana is actually still worshipped in certain parts of South India simply for the fact that he was very devoted to Shiva. A hero he was not. He terrorized the Devas and caused them to run into hiding beseeching Lord Hari to take human form to destroy him, he was looked at as the epitome of evil. On a more esoteric level, he represents the aspect of ourselves that takes away our innocence by being attached to wordly pleasures. Also not very heroic.

[dragonash_1]

Sure, he had the Heroic qualities and attributes, but as it is said, "when a man overpower's the meaning of power, he fails". This simply implies in Ravana's case. He grew so powerful and egoistic that his fall, and decadence of his kingdom was bound to take place. I would like to share a beautiful "Stotra" that he made for the great Shiva known as "Shiv Tandav Stotra". I'm not sure whether I can paste an external link here, however, lemme check:

YouTube - ‪Shiva Tandava Strotram‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McrjgeI-PtI)

May Shiv-Shakti continue smiling upon all of humanity till eternity.

[anisha_astrologer]

ravan indeed was a very learned man and a great king for he ruled his subjects with great agility but he too had his vices. he was afflicted with pride and in his eyes none was supreme. power is good but when it gets on your head it is your worst enemy. this happened to ravana and despite all his knowledge he couldn't shake off pride from himself which ultimately brought his defeat.

[Keurigura Tharman]

True. In fact, it was because of his devotion to Shiva that he had the power he had achieved. His story goes to show that no matter how great of a person you are, your internal enemies, in Ravan's case, lust,and pride in himself, that he thought that he was stronger than lord Ram,who was god himself, and could defeat him, these two put together, simultaneously caused his ultimate defeat.

[dragonash_1]

I agree with you all, but his devotion towards Lord Shiva was second to none and that is all that we should cherish about him and stay cautious of the reasons that bought him to justice by the Simple yet Mighty incarnation of Lord Vishnu.

[i6j8jm9a495sv3pp]

Ravana was a hero.

He was a learned king, priest, an occult master, supreme devotee of Lord Shiva. He was a wise ruler and a strong one, as is evident from his successful empire.

What makes anyone believe that he had got pride to his head, is the 'story' in the vedic scriptures - specifically Ramayana. Didn't some one rightly said above, 'The Winners of War always write history.' That is the case here.

Let's talk about some important points mentioned in the Ramayana itself.

1 How did it all start?
Ram, lakshmana & sita goes off into the forest. The sister of all wise maestro, Ravana, (I believe her name was shurp nakha), happens to come across Ram and offers her courtship to him. And what does the gentleman do? He plays around with her a bit and sends her off to lakshmana. Lakshmana is then said to have 'cut her nose'.

I wonder at times why the 'religious' people apply no common sense when they read the scriptures. 'Cutting the nose' is a symbolic representation. It is a metaphorical equivalent of disgracing her (raping her).

Now that's a great act from a god. But wait then, it is alright because a god form did it? Is it?

And oh those who, in their ignorant eyes of the mind, believe gods are those beautiful forms and the demons / rakshashas are ugly, horrific creatures with no sense or ability in them aside from destruction, and shurpanakha was one amongst such, it might disturb you to know that she was a very beautiful woman with long, beautiful, fish-shaped eyes (validating her given name of "Minakshi" at birth), a slender shape and a bewitching personality [ research yourself ].

Again, this mindset and belief is because valmiki wrote Ramayana AFTER Ram had won the battle. The winner, indeed, writes the history.

So, what is a brother - human, demon or god - shall do? When petty humans can avenge even a slightest of disrespect for their family, why does everyone raise their brows when Ravana decided to do the same.? A king or not, he was a brother of a raped woman.

And he had every f* right to teach Ram / lakshmana / sita a lesson. Oh, one might say, don't drag sita into this. She is represented as daughter of the earth, a goddess form herself. Was she blind or didn't know when lakshamana was 'cutting shurpnakaha's nose'? whatever happened to her nobility, justness and purity of character?

But it's alright, cos they are the 'gods'. It's alright if they rape someone, kill someone, or take over someone else's territories. ah, such two-faced gods.

By the way, sita was NOT born of Janaka. She is said to be the daughter of dasharatha, & therefore is ram's sister. go figure!

2 What did Ravana do?
He goes off and kidnaps sita. Alright. What was ram & lakshmana doing? Oh yes, they were gone hunting. So they couldn't reach back in time n save sita. that sounds like them being helpless. whatever happened to their god-being? All those divine powers & what praise not? Or it's just that they were plain humans. Couldn't do f* nothing without the help of real gods from up above. Or it's that ram WANTED to let sita be taken away? So the banished prince can get a reason to attack the most splendor empire of times and conquer it. And get his honor back.

Whatever the reasons, this just shows ram - the incarnation, the god form, divine etc - was just a cunning strategist & sita didn't hold much value to him.


3 How did Ravana treat sita?
It is said in Ramayana that Ravana kept sita in a beautiful garden, separate from prisoners, wives & other 'demons'. He provided security & isolation to her. It is said he did not even once touch her in lust, after bringing her to lanka.

well now, Jack, a religious blind pops up & says, 'sita was so pure that her divination & loyalty towards her husband ram, inflicted pain & burns to Ravana, and so he dared not touch her.' It might be possible but common sense says it was not the case. Ravana was an accomplished occult master, the greatest devotee of Lord Shiva, a good leader, an undefeated and successful strategist & king. Not to forget the comparatively minor fact that his several wives were more beautiful & charming than sita. Now if Jack says, Ravana had lost his head to pride & power, Jack don't understand jack. Though it is possible, but the probability of such an illuminated person going haywire in the head over one pretty woman, is extremely low.

Ravana had probably realized and / or calculated that it was all a strategic event. Specifically from the perspective of Ayodhya prince ram planning to take over his lanka. Well as the story unfolded, exactly that happened, didn't it?

4 Meanwhile, in the jungles, what did Ram do?
If Ravana, who is considered evil, & what not, can use his powers to come n take sita just like that, why wouldn't anyone question ram on using his 'divination' or whatever super powers to rescue sita back? An ideal husband, he sure is.

Oh wait, Jack has a comment, 'Ram was a righteous king, he wasn't lost in the jungles, he just first wanted to meet the great monkey, Hanuman. Then create an army of monkeys, bears & other animals, and only then go to fight ravana'. WoW!

As I said, ram was just another prince. He in all probability wasn't ready to challenge Ravana & 'needed' others. Hanuman [ form of Lord Shiva ] was his sole protector. Ram was nothing without Hanuman. It was Hanuman who did all the elite work for ram. You guys have read Ramayana, hopefully, so you would know. It was Hanuman who saved lakshmana's life with the help of a life-giving herb. He just brought the whole mountain.!
If Hanuman were not there, ram & lakshmana with all their gods and his entire army of ayodhya etc didn't had a bit of kahonas to hump even dust on lanka.

As for the righteous ram, one small example was shown in the battle between vali and sugriva. Why & how did ram kill Vali? For those who do not know Vali, he was the king of kishkindha & sugriva was his brother. Sugriva took over vali's wife & kingdom at one point. vali came back & kicked sugriva's a** out. Hanuman who was then the prime minister of kishkindha, took him to ram who saw this opportunity and offered his help. One should know at least this one fact about vali. Apart from being extremely powerful, he had this capability to absorb one-half of the power / strength of his battle opponent. Sugriva and ram couldn't have beaten vali even together, leave out killing him, had it been a genuine, face-to-face battle. In his desperation to gather army, ram had to help sugriva by killing vali. So the all-divine god ram, hid behind a tree whilst watching vali beat sugriva black n blue, and killed vali as soon as he got a chance. That's an example of righteousness & bravery, right there.

As is rightly mentioned elsewhere, this murder of Vali is the greatest blot on the character of ram. It was a crime which was thoroughly unprovoked, for Vali had no quarrel with ram. It was a most cowardly act, for Vali was unarmed. It was a planned and premeditated murder.

Another instance of ram's righteousness & respect to women comes to my mind. But that'd come later.

5 Sita awaits, 'god' ram stays in the jungles with his small army.
For at least 10 months, sita waited for ram to come n rescue her. Would you see any lesser coward than ram? The truth is for ram, sita was just another woman, and now that Ravana has taken sita to lanka, she was a prize for ram. You see, princes & kings fought wars for winning something. in this case, sita was the 'object', just an object.

6 Hanuman to the rescue again.
So Hanuman on his journey to lanka, meets Ravana, warns him, burns & plunders his lanka, meets sita, & could've easily brought her back. But no, ram never wanted that in the first place. religious blinders make people believe it was because ram wanted to assure sita that he will come himself to get her. bollocks! If ram did not had any agenda other than saving sita, he either would have come himself - of course he couldn't cos he was no match against Ravana - or even asked Hanuman to bring sita back - as we know, ram didn't wanted this either, cos a) it will affect his prince image & whatever honor was left of it, & b) he will not get another golden chance to wage a war against Ravana. So as Hanuman consoled sita, ram devised plans for the war to win lanka and NOT any rescue op. Here again, Hanuman was used by ram.

One more instance of how frugal & incompetent this banished prince ram was & had it not been Hanuman, he couldn't have done any damage to Ravana, at all.
So ram, lakshman slept at their camps, secured by their monkey & bear forces. And then they disappear. Brother of Ravana, Ahi-ravana, kidnaps both of them. how cool is that! these demi-gods, yet again get screwed & taken to the underworld, not by the powerful Ravana, but merely by his brother. Amusing! Yet again, Hanuman rescues both the princes from the underworld.

7 Ram killed Ravana?
Think again. Ram, Hanuman or the entire god & monkey army couldn't have defeated Ravana. It was vibishna - the coward, traitor brother of Ravana - who revealed the way to kill Ravana. It's worth repeating again, vibishna was a coward, a traitor and unless he had disclosed Ravana's secret energy point, ram & his minions would have been crushed by Ravana. Of course, again, it was Hanuman, who wreaked the most havoc in Ravana's army during the battle. not the mortal ram & his brother lakshmana.

...continued...

[i6j8jm9a495sv3pp]

Now that the battle was over, Ravana had passed, what did ram do?

He did not go himself but he sent Hanuman. And what was the message he sent him with? He did not ask Hanuman to bring her. He asked him to inform her that he was hale and hearty. It was Sita who expressed to Hanuman her desire to see ram. ram did not go to see Sita, his own wife who was kidnapped and confined by Ravana for more than 10 months. Sita went to him and what did ram say to Sita when he saw her? It would be difficult to believe any man with ordinary human kindness could address his wife in such dire distress as ram did to Sita when he met her at Lanka. This is how ram addressed her:

"I have got you as a prize in a war after conquering my enemy, your captor. I have recovered my honour and punished my enemy. People have witnessed my military powers and I am glad my labours have been rewarded. I came here to kill Ravana and wash off the dishonour. I did not take this trouble for your sake."

Could there be anything more cruel than this conduct of ram towards Sita? He does not stop there. He proceeded to tell her:
"I suspect your conduct. You must have been spoiled by Ravana. Your very sight is revolting to me. Oh you daughter of Janaka! I allow you to go anywhere you like. I have nothing to do with you. I conquered you back and I am content for that was my object. I cannot think that Ravana would have failed to enjoy a woman as beautiful as you are."

To give him no excuse Sita undertakes to prove her purity. She enters the fire and comes out unscathed. The Gods satisfied with this evidence, proclaim that she is pure. It is then that ram agrees to take her back to Ayodhya.

And what does he do with her when he brings her back to Ayodhya? Of course, he became king and she became queen. But while ram remained king, Sita ceased to be queen very soon. This incident reflects great infamy upon ram. It is recorded by Valmiki in his Ramayana that some days after the coronation of ram and Sita as king and queen, Sita conceived. Seeing that she was carrying some residents of evil disposition began to calumniate Sita suggesting that she was in Lanka and blaming ram for taking such a woman back as his wife. This malicious gossip in the town was reported by Bhadra, the Court joker, to ram. ram evidently was stung by this calumny. He was overwhelmed with a sense of disgrace. This is quite natural. What is quite unnatural is the means he adopts of getting rid of this disgrace. To get rid of this disgrace he takes the shortest cut and the swiftest means - namely to abandon her, a woman in a somewhat advanced state of pregnancy in a jungle, without friends, without provision, without even notice - in a most treacherous manner. There is no doubt that the idea of abandoning Sita was not sudden and had not occurred to ram on the spur of the moment. The genesis of the idea, the developing of it and the plan of executing are worth some detailed mention.

When Bhadra reports to him the gossip about Sita which had spread in the town, ram calls his brothers and tells them of his feelings. He tells them Sita's purity and chastity was proved in Lanka, that Gods had vouched for it and that he absolutely believed in her innocence, purity and chastity. "All the same the public are calumniating Sita and are blaming me and putting me to shame. No one can tolerate such disgrace. Honour is a great asset; Gods as well as great men strive to maintain it. I cannot bear this dishonour and disgrace. To save myself from such dishonour and disgrace I shall be ready even to abandon you. Don't think I shall hesitate to abandon Sita."

This shows that he was making up his mind to abandon Sita as the easiest way of saving himself from public calumny without considering whether the way was fair or foul. The life of Sita simply did not count. What counted was his own personal name and fame. He of course does not take the manly course of defending his wife and stopping the gossip, which as a king he could have done and which as a husband who was convinced of his wife's innocence he was supposed to do. He yielded to the public gossip and there are not wanting Hindus who use this as ground to prove that ram was a democratic king when others could equally well say that he was a weak and cowardly monarch. Be that as it may that diabolical plan of saving his name and his fame he discloses to his brother but not to Sita, the only person who was affected by it and the only person who was entitled to have notice of it. But she is kept entirely in the dark. ram keeps it away from Sita as a closely guarded secret and was waiting for an opportunity to put his plan into action. Eventually the cruel fate of Sita gives him the opportunity he was waiting for. Women who are carrying exhibit all sorts of cravings for all sorts of things. ram knew of this. So one day he asked Sita if there was anything for which she was craving. She replied that she would like to live in the vicinity of the Ashrama of a sage on the bank of the river Ganges and live on fruits and roots at least for one night. ram simply jumped at the suggestion of Sita and said, "Be easy my dear, I shall see that you are sent there tomorrow". Sita treats this as an honest promise. But what does ram do? He thinks it is a good opportunity for carrying out his plan of abandoning Sita. Accordingly he called his brothers to a secret conference and disclosed to them his determination to use this desire of Sita as the opportunity to carry out the plan of abandoning her. He tells his brothers not to intercede on behalf of Sita, and warns them that if they came in his way he would look upon them as his enemies. Then he tells Laxman to take Sita in a chariot next day to the Ashram in the jungle on the bank of the river Ganges and to abandon her there. Laxman did not know how he could muster courage to tell Sita what was decided by ram. Sensing his difficulty ram informs Laxman that Sita had already expressed her desire to spend some time in the vicinity of an Ashram on the bank of the river and eased the mind of Laxman. This confabulation took place at night. Next morning Laxman asked Sumanta to yoke the horses to the chariot. Sumanta informs Laxman of having already done so. Laxman then goes into the palace and meets Sita and reminds her of her having expressed the desire to pass some days in the vicinity of an Ashrama and ram having promised to fulfill the same and tells her of his having been charged by ram to do the needful in the matter. He points to her the chariot waiting there and says, "Let us go!" Sita jumps into the chariot with her heart full of gratitude to ram. With Laxman as her companion and Sumanta as coachman, the chariot proceeds to its appointed place. At last, they were on the bank of the Ganges and were ferried across by the fishermen. Laxman fell at Sita's feet, and with hot tears flowing from his eyes he said, "Pardon me, O, blameless queen, for what I am doing. My orders are to abandon you here, for the people blame ram for keeping you in his house".

...continued...

[i6j8jm9a495sv3pp]

Sita, abandoned by ram and left to die in a jungle, went for shelter to the Ashrama of Valmiki, which was near about. Valmiki gave her protection and kept her in his Ashram. There in course of time, Sita gave birth to twin sons, called Kusa and Lava. The three lived with Valmiki. Valmiki brought up the boys and taught them to sing the Ramayana which he had composed. For 12 years the boys lived in the forest in the Ashrama of Valmiki not far from Ayodhya where ram continued to rule. Never once in those 12 years this 'model husband and loving father' cared to inquire what had happened to Sita - whether she was living or whether she was dead. Twelve years after ram meets Sita in a strange manner. ram decided to perform a Yagna and issued an invitation to all the Rishis to attend and take part. For reasons best known to ram himself no invitation was issued to Valmiki although his Ashram was near to Ayodhya. But Valmiki came to the Yagna of his own accord accompanied by the two sons of Sita introducing them as his disciples. While the Yagna was going on the two boys were used to perform recitations of Ramayana in the presence of the Assembly. ram was very pleased and made inquiries, and he was informed that they were the sons of Sita. It was then he remembered Sita and what does he do then? He does not send for Sita. He calls these innocent boys who knew nothing about their parents' sin, who were the only victims of a cruel destiny, to tell Valmiki that if Sita was pure and chaste she could present herself in the Assembly to take a vow and thereby remove the calumny cast against herself and himself. This is a thing she had once done in Lanka. This is a thing she could have been asked to do again before she was sent away. There was no promise that after this vindication of her character ram was prepared to take her back. Valmiki brings her to the Assembly. When she was in front of ram, Valmiki said, "O, son of Dashratha, here is Sita whom you abandoned in consequence of public disapprobation. She will now swear her purity if permitted by you. Here are your twin-born sons raised up by me in my hermitage". "I know", said ram, "that Sita is pure and that these are my sons. She performed an ordeal in Lanka in proof of her purity and therefore I took her back. But people here have doubts still, and let Sita perform an ordeal here that all these Rashis and people may witness it".

With eyes cast down on the ground and with hands folded Sita swore "As I never thought out of anyone except ram even in my mind, let mother Earth open and bury me. As I always loved ram in words, in thoughts, and in deed, let mother Earth open and bury me!" As she uttered the oath, the earth verily opened and Sita was carried away inside seated on a golden simhasana (throne). Heavenly flowers fell on Sita's head while the audience looked on as in a trance.

That means that Sita preferred to die rather than return to ram who had behaved no better than a brute.
Such is the tragedy of Sita and the crime of ram the god.

[ Some content used from: wikipedia and raceandhistory ]

ram is a story made up to run for the sake of keeping faith amongst the masses. That's all he is about. He was not a good husband, father, friend, or king. In actuality, he embodies the real evil - reincarnation of Lord Vishnu or not.

Yet, still every year, Hindus burn Ravana who was the epitome of wisdom, knowledge & accomplishment.

[i6j8jm9a495sv3pp]

use the bloody edit button, there is no need to separate the threads.

there is a bloody 10000 word limit per post.

[Branwen]

I think Mrs. Peel is teasing.

[i6j8jm9a495sv3pp]

then don't post so much it gives the staff a bloody headache.

would have helped if there was a bloody guideline about how much to post or not post to this forum.

Reading a long post or not is at discretion of the reader.

[i6j8jm9a495sv3pp]

I think Mrs. Peel is teasing.

I hope she is. Else, it'd seem posting here is like a school essay where everyone has to restrict herself to a 10k limit.

[moorey]

According to the original Valmiki Ramayana, Ravana was a BRAHMIN. He was the grandson of Brahmin Rishi PULASTHYA.Ravana was well-versed in the SAMA VEDA. The Vedas were taught only to Brahmins.


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