Doubts and frustrations...

[Kem74]

I have always been interested in the occult, but only recently have I begun to practice it daily. I own a copy of Kraig's "Modern Magick" and have been working through that for the last 3 months, keeping the dream/ritual diaries, learning and performing the rituals each day.

Lately I have begun to have doubts and thought I'd air them here. The concept of God as described in the occult reading is one I am totally at ease with and was a view I rationalised myself after my post-Catholic atheist period veered towards agnosticism.

I can see how the vibrations, the focus and the intensity of the LBRP can lead to a new understanding. When I do the Middle Pillar Ritual I can feel the energy flow through me. But there are other things I find hard to accept: when evoking the Archangels - angels, demons, entities are not things I believe in. The four elements? Why four? The periodic table says there are 117. And the Adorations? Why to Egyptian deities I don't believe in? Tarot - yes I have found it to work, but am I not just merely imposing a set of thoughts on my subconscious?

I realise I am at the very, very beginning of a journey, but I'm finding the intensity of the rituals is starting to wane. When I did the LBRP and the Middle Pillar Ritual today they seemed very flat. I know I get out what I put in, but I'm finding it harder to do them with the anticipation and enthusiasm of a few weeks ago.

Maybe it's not my path...? Does anyone else have similar doubts?

[zero]

as for the element they are essences you can take elements from the periodical table and apply the meta elements in one or more to them. there are actually five prime elements that encompasses all.

entities...do you exist? is what we see physically all there is; is there at least not a question in your mind that they could exist. I suppose that if you only believe in what you perceive with the physical senses then ya they would not exist with such devises. if I take a picture in the dark without flash does that mean that the environment in light does not exist?

there is only one failure and that is to give up even in failing one learns.

[Dajai]

Doubt is a good and sound thing to possess. If you don't know such ambiguity how can you ever be sure that you aren't mistaking rigidity for strength? Flexibility and grey areas are far more scary than the black and white of ignorant certainty; yet hold their own unique power through genuine tests of faith like the one you are experiencing now.

Is it faith in the material or faith in your self that is lacking? Either way; hold on to that feeling and learn from it. Choosing the "not my path" option will indeed make it so. You'll only throw away a learning experience that could potentially enrich your life greatly. It is your doubt that leads me to consider your potential.

Certainly, there are many more than just four elements; the key is synchronising/harmonising them so that they will form a complementary whole.

Occultists, however, are never going to agree as a whole on any one thing; it's not in the nature of the Beast. Even members of the same order will clash. I do not agree with some of my associate's ideas but that does not make them wrong or me correct. When the material becomes personal it has encroached too much; thus, your doubt is important.

We are all manipulating similar principals using different techniques that feel most natural or right -even though some can be paradoxically unnatural and uncomfortable.

Of course, I'm not saying that your doubt is going to enhance your abilities directly -it's a process -and moreover a sign that you have entered a form of stagnation (and pretty quickly after just a few weeks). Simply change material and learn something new. Focus on another facet that you desire to understand and apply your doubt to what you find yourself reading; Suffer this and you'll learn something much deeper than any words can teach you.

[crowley666]

angels, apples, or assholes believing in them is what gives them power.

[zero]

then is that to say there was no power in them in the first place?

why would people give them the time of day to begin with?

is every one that use them just stupid?

is there nothing outside ones self...is self all there is in your eye?

belief is a relative term it can mean a unfounded belief in something or a founded belief, for instance blind faith, and faith based on evidence. blind faith is believing in something just because someone says so books words and so forth. educated faith is similar but better in that it is based on experience from ones own ideas and knowledge, the wisdom of this form is to be able to change when the facts change from the before mentioned facets when they change within due reason.

most of the occult is a educated guess it works but many don't know why exactly. like the saying of when you do this this happens. the key is to know the why and the how's are limitless.

a collection of ideas from many sources and then incorporating those that work into your own. practice makes perfect...

[crowley666]

I wouldn't give two spits for someone who believed in magick but has no natural skill or never seen an adept perform it.
All these things can be used to build a material tower, but until you believe they have power they remain just that material. Not until you disevow their material power can the tower be destroyed and the true tower of babel be created. We are now moving in that direction. Perhaps my lens is dirty, I'll try to find a new one for you next time zero. Close that eye, open it again and see you from the new left, I'll always keep my right eye open until I die and return again in a new form.

[NeoeN]

Disclaimer: I don't really know anything about ceremonial magic, or anything else really, but here are my thoughts.

Regarding stagnation: I'm pretty sure this happens with anything. Don't let it discourage you. Just keep working. Plateaus are inherent in virtually every serious endeavor.

Regarding the elements: Don't confuse the magician's definition of element with the chemist's. From what I've read, the four elements refer to astral things that make up the world. Fire, air, water, and earth are just the physical approximations of them. By meditating on their physical properties, you can discover how they work on the astral and mental levels.

Regarding doubts in general: Remember that while is good to pick one thing and stick with it, you've only been going at it for a few months. It's not too late to look around and see if anything else resonates with you. Just make sure not only to look around, but to settle on some path eventually. I heartily recommend Initiation into Hermetics by Bardon. However, if you don't like the elements, you probably won't like it much.

Good luck

[zero]

I wouldn't give two spits for someone who believed in magick but has no natural skill or never seen an adept perform it.
All these things can be used to build a material tower, but until you believe they have power they remain just that material. Not until you disevow their material power can the tower be destroyed and the true tower of babel be created. We are now moving in that direction. Perhaps my lens is dirty, I'll try to find a new one for you next time zero. Close that eye, open it again and see you from the new left, I'll always keep my right eye open until I die and return again in a new form


Perhaps my lens is dirty

to be dirty hmm one would have to see what unclean is first. I see not dirt but perseptions I wish to understand.


I'll always keep my right eye open until I die and return again in a new form

? how so and why not your left? would you not be blind to that side;)

remember that even begars can be kings.

[crowley666]

I meant the foundation will be material no matter.That's the form we have been giving. Doesn't mean one can't give it new meaning as we progress. Unfortunetly one meaning must be closed see a new one. The numbers don't change but we may change their meaning to get different results. Left and right brain. Positive and negative. male and female. Women will always have the babies.

[crowley666]

you met the accuser as well bullfrog. That's wonderful. What did he all tell you?

[Kem74]

Thanks for all the replies.

I think the "follow this book" mentality has lead to some rigidity and I'm viewing the rituals (and the recording of them) as a chore.

In terms of spiritual entities, the phenomena I can accept - poltergeists, hauntings, etc. But my opinion/belief is that the consciousness is within rather than outside of human minds.

"I wouldn't give two spits for someone who believed in magick but has no natural skill or never seen an adept perform it." I think that's a problem of mine, I have been told results will come but have never experienced or witnessed any.

Still, I'll "plod on" for now but look for inspiration where I can find it.

[crowley666]

think your mixing your brain with the mind. Where is your mind anyway. Like is it in the mirror or are you.

[Kem74]

Way out in the water. See it swimming?

[crowley666]

Oh you had to do it "with your head on the ground and your feet in the air. Take this trick and spin it... yeah. Your head will collapse, and theyr's nothing in it and you'll ask yourself, where is my mind" I love the pixies. Thank you, you brightened my day.