Thread: Golden Dawn

Originally Posted by MrK

I wouldn't say based but since many of them came from the SRIA and this was where they first learned magic it is most certain a big influence. We know this is where they found the cypher document no mater what we chose to belive when it comes to that document and the note about Anna Sprengel found with it.

GD developed their own new system of Magic based on many different sources. Sources they at the time thought was genuine like Barrets The Magus and some of the Enochian work. They also used many eastern concepts and mixed it with the western traditions. Stripped away most old religious thinking and replaced it with a rather advanced form of symbology taken from hermetics and kabbalah for example. It is a rather fascinating system to be honest.

Where does the SRIA teach magic?

LVX
Frater LeL

Originally Posted by MrK

What secret teachings by the way? I doubt an order can get less secret then the Golden Dawn

Haha, I think she means that of the RR et AC - we see the golden dawn flaunted, but the inner order is way more secret, and of course, though, the inner cannot exist without the outer. Unless of course you are the EOGD, who, when the original members reached the inner - left. Their dreams were smashed.

In any case, most orders are indeed better then that.

Khabs am pekht.

Light In Extension. My Dad drums this into my head every day, we say the Berekah.

Originally Posted by Belphebe

Light In Extension. My Dad drums this into my head every day, we say the Berekah.

Awesome. I'm going to start doing that by myself eventually. Maybe when i do more of the introduction material &c.

My dad said you are going to enjoy it.

Originally Posted by Belphebe

My dad said you are going to enjoy it.

Of course I am. Please, all arguements are over. All fighting has ceased. I, personally, will put an end to the divisions here among all GD groups, whether one likes them or not. That is my duty, or so I feel.

Khabs am pekht
Frater LeL

Yes it is time.

Originally Posted by Belphebe

Yes it is time.

Of course, then again, maybe im just way to young to make such... critical statements.

Originally Posted by Fr_CV

Griffin's HOGD/A+O - He claims a lineage to Mathers, as the name implies. He also has connections to France, and a "behman" (sp?) who was also a member of a GD order that died out, like Regardie. The issue is, if the rituals to reach the levels of the Secret Chiefs are real, and from the secret chiefs. I havent gotten that far, but I wonder why Griffin hasnt made himself 10=1 yet?

Sorry for bumping this old thread. But I just read it and felt there need to be some clarifications, regarding the lineage issue and the nature of the Third Order.

Firstly the French Temple of Ahatoor, which has been ressurected in Paris since 1994. That Temple is a valid successor of Mather's Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega through English Orders such as the Order of the Pyramid and Sphinx and the Ancient Magical Order of the Golden Dawn, who both held authentic lineages from the A.O. on the level of 7=4 (which is the "controlling" Grade of the G.D.) The HOGD/A+O received this lineage from Paris in 1997 and since then appended the "A+O" to the "HOGD".

Regarding "behman" you are in fact referring to Cris Monnastre (the author of the preface to the Llewellyn edition of 'The Golden Dawn'), who was a close pupil of Regardie since the late 1970's. She was in fact the closest pupil and only student who took regular tuition from Regardie in person, and not from letters, etc. She was initiatiated with Adam Forrest to the 5=6 by Regardie in 1982. It was she who ressurected the HOGD in America with the help of Laura Jennings, back in 1982, with the direct supervision of Regardie. She then initiated David Griffin, the current head of the HOGD/A+O, through the Grades up to the 6=5. He in turn received his 7=4 from Paris.

So the validity of the lineage of the HOGD/A+O is as valid as any other authentic G.D. Order. It comes both from Regardie and from Paris, and involves not only the A.O. but also the Stella Matutina and A.E. Waite's Fellowship of the Rosy Cross.

Originally Posted by Fr_CV

Regardie held the lineage and reached the second orders in the 1950s

No, Regardie reached the 5=6 in 1935. He published almost the entire corpus that he had received just some few years later (1937-40) in the tome The Golden Dawn.

Furthermore, the "Regardie lineage", regardless of Order who has received it, hardly constitutes a "valid" lineage according to traditional G.D. protocol. Regardie wasn't a 7=4 and thus lacked authority to intiate anyone into the G.D., and definitely not into the Inner Order (R.R. et A.C.) which requires at least one Adept of the 7=4 Grade. But using a more modern and liberal attitude, one could stretch it to regard the Regardie lineage as a "intiatic lineage" on the level of 5=6.

Originally Posted by Fr_CV

To be clear - by higher chiefs, i mean that of the third order. They are astral entities, and not real. There are not any on this forum.

No they are not "astral entities". That is a modern invention of the 20th Century. The tradition of "Secret Chiefs" goes way further back than this. The members of the "Third Order" are incarnated as you and me, but I would dare to say that they differ from us in their spiritual attainment. Some of them are "more than human". It is possible to reach to that level in one life time, but it takes almost a life time to reach that lofty goal. The means to this is internal alchemical processings of a highly secret nature. Thus you cannot reach it only through the published formulae of Golden Dawn Ceremonial Magic in one life time. But there exists processes that can bring you there, as it does in the Eastern Tantric traditions.

In Licht, Leben und Liebe
S:.R:.

You seem to know quite a bit about The Golden Dawn, Sincerus Renatus. Thank you for your input.