Thread: Golden Dawn

Hello all,

How many are interested in the Golden Dawn?

If so, there is a great group out there that helps you with self initiation, based off of the ciceros books.

In any case, it is my advice to stay away from Robert Zink (Esoteric Golden Dawn) and David Griffin (HOGD/Alpha et Omega) due to their flame wars. No body wants to be a part of that. The good ones that are left are the HSoM, Ordo Stella Matutina, and of course, The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn by the Ciceros.

I used to be in Zink's group, but upon finding out that he ran other workshops - Ruach Healing, The Guarantee, The Power of Angels, Alchemical Mentoring, and stuff like that - it's clear his group is just a marketing scam. This has been my experience in my year with them. PLUS, they charge for grades, and the yearly dues are $80.. and each grade costs more plus the year dues, so, there you go... In fact, it got so bad that you can download Zink's course material online by the ORIGINAL compilers!

David Griffin's group isnt as bad, but, he does claim that one can be initiated into the 3 higher grades - reserved for the Secret Chiefs. Thats the only thing that set me off about him. Also, there is a legal battle between him and Chic Cicero - Chic won, and in any case, the too get along okay in theory.

I of course, prefer the Ciceros - they have done so much work to keep the G.D. alive. In fact, Regardie held the lineage and reached the second orders in the 1950s - when the final order collapsed in the 1970s. You can read this at the hermeticgoldendawn.org website, under library resources - they use Regardies own letters, scanned as proof.

Alright, here's my preferred group - The HSoM and the Ordo Stella Matutina. The HSoM is a group devoted to getting a fraternity for those online who self-initiate. You may need to make a lot of magickal tools, and do a lot of work on your own, but there cost is $36 a year (comapred to other groups $80) and they DONT charge for grades. I personally talked to the HSoM head and he confirmed this.

The OSM is the REAL order that runs the HSoM to help people - grades in the HSoM do not correspond to the OSM. The OSM is run the same way.

If im missing any GD orders, please let me know.

This is my experience, and of course, if your varies, let me know!

LVX,
Frater LeL

Links to all groups concerned:

Zink - Esotericgoldendawn.com
Griffin - golden-dawn.com
Cicero - hermeticgoldendawn.org
OSM&HSoM - ritual-magic.com

As I was writing the last reply, it came to mind - what about LINEAGE?

This is an important question. Since Regardie published the Golden Dawn rituals, any order can just spring up. Lineage isnt that important as experience, but people need some validation. how do THOSE orders hold up in this light of lineage?

Zink's EOGD - Original Members said all he used was a oujia board tog et in contact with secret chiefs. As we all know, at best, we just get in contact with lower astral entities that want to play games with us.

Griffin's HOGD/A+O - He claims a lineage to Mathers, as the name implies. He also has connections to France, and a "behman" (sp?) who was also a member of a GD order that died out, like Regardie. The issue is, if the rituals to reach the levels of the Secret Chiefs are real, and from the secret chiefs. I havent gotten that far, but I wonder why Griffin hasnt made himself 10=1 yet?

HOGD - Most well known, and linked to Regardie. He helped the Ciceros create a vault has he experienced it in the 1950s, 20 years before the last temple fell. This group is the most authentic, and also doing the most to spread the Golden Dawn teachings. Regardie himself said it is possible with a lot of work to self initiate.

HSoM and OSM - uses the material of the Ciceros, and not much else to be added upon. They are a very quiet group, and do not engage in flame wars, and are well mannered, with no outrageous claims.

Theres the overview of it all, and i'm not even sure if the OSM has its own lineage - regardless, at least they are and the HOGD are helping everyone who wants to join the Golden Dawn current, instead of pretending to be the highest and most secret and TRUEST thing out there.

LVX,
Frater LeL

Oh God FR_CV David is a friend, I must stay neutral, but your advice is sound.

Originally Posted by ZeldaFitz

Oh God FR_CV David is a friend, I must stay neutral, but your advice is sound.

Of course, however, i still cannot sanction the fact one can reach the level of secret chiefs in one lifetime. But thats me.

You are talking of high in the order in this lifetime? I see no reason why not. If you are talking beyond human I think that takes a few incarnations.

Originally Posted by MrK

I have bigger problems understanding that people actually believe in the concept of the higher chiefs That part of the GD just feels like a big hoax to me.

If you are a member of an order then you would not be asking this so I assume you are not. It is not a hoax as the concept of higher chiefs is a reality. There are a few on this forum.

Originally Posted by bullfrogrule3

god from world uviverses may charge planets on a balanced level but he withdrew i asked if he could hold on to some to pay for all spirtually or thrown away he withdrew. might have a distance factor seems coincidental she devil still havent figured out hermetics yet but know am facinated by this group. how long has it been around (cos) ..

tell us some good qualities

It has been around since the 1800's, and most people think it died out in the 1950's, which it did not. The teachings are out there for all who are interested. It is not for everyone, especially people who want a quick result and are not into discipline and hard work.

Originally Posted by ZeldaFitz

If you are a member of an order then you would not be asking this so I assume you are not. It is not a hoax as the concept of higher chiefs is a reality. There are a few on this forum.

To be clear - by higher chiefs, i mean that of the third order. They are astral entities, and not real. There are not any on this forum.

Continuing on, the Original GD did die out fast, but thats due to the strains of England at the time, and one chief wanted to keep up with the magic, and another wanted mysticism. In any case, the span of life of the original GD does not mean the teachings were ineffective. I daresay the two leaders just had different ideas about where to take it.

In any case, one of the main links to the golden dawn was Regardie - who got initiated into a vault in the 1950s - long before the last temple closed in 1970. Since then, a lot of golden dawn groups have sprung up, which is what my above posts are about. Two of them fight greatly, and the others stay in the background. Why? One is from Mathers, in France, and still is based mainly in Europe, and the second, in America. In any case...

Continuing on yet again, MrK is MAINLY correct, however, the golden dawn is a GOOD START for anyone interested in ceremonial magick. Of course, we must distinguish between the Golden Dawn and the RR et AC.

Originally Posted by Fr_CV

To be clear - by higher chiefs, i mean that of the third order. They are astral entities, and not real. There are not any on this forum.

Continuing on, the Original GD did die out fast, but thats due to the strains of England at the time, and one chief wanted to keep up with the magic, and another wanted mysticism. In any case, the span of life of the original GD does not mean the teachings were ineffective. I daresay the two leaders just had different ideas about where to take it.

In any case, one of the main links to the golden dawn was Regardie - who got initiated into a vault in the 1950s - long before the last temple closed in 1970. Since then, a lot of golden dawn groups have sprung up, which is what my above posts are about. Two of them fight greatly, and the others stay in the background. Why? One is from Mathers, in France, and still is based mainly in Europe, and the second, in America. In any case...

Continuing on yet again, MrK is MAINLY correct, however, the golden dawn is a GOOD START for anyone interested in ceremonial magick. Of course, we must distinguish between the Golden Dawn and the RR et AC.

Frater I was kidding! I knew exactly what you meant. I was trying to put a little levity into the situation. They assists the order with healing also. I don't know if you are in an order yet, but you will get to know about them . Since I am on Sabbatical, I shall say good bye and check in when I get back. Farewell.

Originally Posted by MrK

Another really foolish claim some Golden Dawners do. Mostly the European ones is that you can not do any magic without being initiated in the order. They even claim that all magicians in history has been a member of the Golden Dawn since they have been initiated by these Secret Chiefs and that magic is impossible without activating the third eye and contact them on the astral plane

Claims like that is why I have a hard time taking them serious

Yes, that too. Quite insane. In fact, i go as far as to say, the people claiming to be the ONLY golden dawn order, to have the only this and that are quite incorrect.

The only group i absolutely despise is the EOGD, and that is from personal experience.