Thread: Fireborn. Clayborn, and Hearers.

''Fireborn & Clayborn

The tradition tells us there are two kind of people on this earth. One is the Clayborn
(matter without spirit), these are 99.99% of all humans. And the second group are
The Fireborn (the people of divine fire, the awakened ones). These are the
pneumatics, those who have the divine flame burning inside. You can say that these
"qualities" are inherited. The first group are the people of the world of matter that
belong to the forms of the physical plane. The second group are the people of the
spirit that are from beyond the cosmic plane but have been trapped in the world of
matter.
The first worship the Demiurge as their God and Creator. The second group see the
demiurge as their enemy and enslaver, that have trapped them in vessels of clay
(the restricting body and mind of man).

One belongs to one side or the other. There is no salvation for the blind man (the
hylics) for they are part of the illusion that keeps the Man of Fire enslaved. The only
ones that can be saved are the few amongst the Elite that have drank from the
waters of "Lethe" and forgotten their own True Origin. That is why orders like MLO
exist, not to find new members but to find their old brothers and sisters. The MLO
believes in reincarnation and that the memories are taken away from you after
each life (to drink from Lethe) so that you lose your way and your wisdom. But only
the ego changes form from each death to life, but the inner core of the spirit (or
self) remembers everything and have all the answers one needs. Through spiritual
work you may reach back through the Gates Within and take part of all the wisdom
that the Demiurge isn't capable of erasing.

The aim of the tradition is to help others of the same "blood" to remember their
selves and join in the war against the lie of cosmos and the illusions of the
Demiurge.
The idea of these three races is closely paralleled in other systems, as in the Yogic
conception of the Tamas, Rajas and Sattva; the Tantric conception of the three
types of humans:

· Pashu-bhâva
· Vîra-bhâva
· Divya-bhâva

in the Manichaean conceptions of the profane (matter, body), the Hearers (soul)
and the Elect (Light, Spirit).
The Pneumatic individual possesses the Sperma Pneumatikon (The Seed of Spirit),
The Black Flame, and the knowledge of the Plêrôma. The Pneumatic is destined for
salvation from the final destruction of the manifested universe (Day of Wrath or
Dies Irae), regardless of his or her behavior. Therefore one may be both lawless
and immoralized, without risking any "punishment".

The Hylic (clayborn) dwell in the utter darkness of materialistic ignorance, and are
destined for destruction. The Hylic are entirely composed of illusory, transitory
matter, and will vanish along with all the other illusions at the restoration of the
Plêrôma (The Fullness of Chaos).

The Psychic, he who is between the clayborn and The Fireborn, is situated half way
between the Pneumatic and the Hylic, and possesses free will. Salvation (Gnosis)
for the Psychic is a matter of choice, of right aspiration, and of faith (and of WILL,
his own will and the WILL of The Lucifer, who is the Giver of Gnosis).

So in the case of those that are "the hearers" (those in between clay and fire) it is a
war in order to join one side or the other. In satanism "the hearers" are sometimes
called "those with the slumbering spark". '' - Liber Azerate

What are people's perceptions of the Clayborn? This idea reminds me of the Order of Nine Angles perception of the Mundanes. Why do people believe the Fireborn are even locked in this lie?

Reading this it did strike me as very reminiscent of the ONA and it all seems relatively romantic (and abridged) as compared to original gnostic texts. The idea that there are those who were "born to be" so to speak is an interesting one, but is very easily manipulated by those who would dispose of those deemed "mundane," i.e. Nazis, racial separatists, and their ilk. The concept of the clayborn is as troubling as the caste system, or even worse as one is not expected to move from clayborn to fireborn between death and rebirth, though one's caste may change. Not to go into a huge tirade about the problem of free will, but it would make more sense to me if we were all hearers or ''psychics'' and had the choice to awaken our fire or let the slumbering spark sleep.

It reminds me of the ONA as well, though with the ONA the mundanes are more an inconvenience to the manifestation of the Sinister Energies... than actually being soulless.

This belief is actually held in gnosticism. Obviously not all forms of gnosticism but it isn't just Gnostic Satanism.

If you read up on Calvinism, they state that even in the Bible, God has his Elect. He randomly points at someone at says ''Yeah, you're a cool guy. I'm going to give you salvation regardless if you are a christian or not.''

Says something about when God spoke to Moses and said God will have compassion on those he has compassion on. Then it goes into a bunch of other verses to explain why God has the Elect. Can you imagine who the Elect of God might be to the Calvinist? Of course Calvinists!

I think this kind of elitism is designed to make it so people would desire to be like the elite - thus ''enforcing'' their particular kind of paradigm upon everyone.

However, I do believe that there are clayborn people. I do believe however, that even for the clayborn there is possibility of ''Salvation'' but not by any moral means. Such salvation would have to be essentially forced upon them through magickal means. Even if they had the spark of divinity they could still crush this spark and make it ash. I do not think it makes them worthy of death though. This is on the grounds that if they do end up gaining a spark of divinity that they may choose to cultivate it or not. Plus legal matters and logical matters such as - if I kill someone then I am obviously going to have a mob of angry people after me. I'd rather not kill people... I respect Will too much, even if it is synthetic.

To speak frankly, the notion makes me sad - very sad. I am not sure in which category to put me in. But that's not the case. I always questioned myself about why I cannot see souls in all people. One possibility I am not able to. Second possibility there are none - when thinking in this way I put them in the category young and almost transparent souls. But the notion of them being clayborn, is too desperate to feel. This would mean all their struggles would, in the end, be useless for them, no learning, no improving for them; no jump into Lethe for a better try. This makes me almost cry.

Devakxes. Do you really believe this? Feel it this way?

Originally Posted by ArkhamQueen

I always questioned myself about why I cannot see souls in all people. One possibility I am not able to. Second possibility there are none - when thinking in this way I put them in the category young and almost transparent souls. But the notion of them being clayborn, is too desperate to feel. This would mean all their struggles would, in the end, be useless for them, no learning, no improving for them; no jump into Lethe for a better try. This makes me almost cry.

I do believe that majority of individuals in this planet are soulless and don't have a need to ascend and accelerate spiritually. This insight is wonderful and does give food for thought on this matter. It is sad definitely if you look at it from a romantic perspective but it is happening.

I will not be content with stone.

Read between the lines and realize Clayborn has a good thing going. I know what Emma means though and this can apply to every belief.