Thread: worship of tiamat and the ancient ones

As with all patriarchal hostile take overs of goddess worshiping religion. The worshipers of Marduk and the elder gods eleminated all trace of the previous religion. but underground cults must pass down the rites and magicks of the ancient religion. Has anyone out there came across anything about tiamat being anything other than a monster? The epic of creation for its most part portrays her as a patient mother who only on extreme provocation turn on her ungrateful children. it seems strange the male led cult of Marduk would go to such extremes to eliminate all evidence of the mothers religion. Any thoughts?

Responding half drunk and from work so bare with....
It really boils down to the whole dark vs light/chaos vs order aspect. In the deity lists, Tiamat and Abzu are not seen as the parents of all as they should be but evil monsters who were conquered by the champion. Their role is replaced by other deities after the inserection and they were all but left to the sands of time. It's like the "new order" of things refused to accept that in the darkness of the abyss/void/sea the parents created them and give the proper respect.

And for those who give them their respect and honour are often seen as evil themselves for honouring chaos gods. "Oh you worship Tiamat? You're a demon worshiper" "No you sod, she's the ground beneath you, sky above you and her blood gives life. The mother of all, give her respect."

It has been shown that new religions or sects of the same religion will demonize the faith of the previous one to gain control of the population in the area. It is theorized by theologans that the christian bible was referring to Tiamat in attempts to stamp out mesopotamian worship all together, as an example.

Half drunk n just in from work or not? That was exactly my thoughts and views on the situation. I glad I've met someone who recognises the hypocracies of the orthodoxy. Just because I empathise with the void and channel my worship to an almost forgotten mother goddess I dont need to be looked down on as some sort of demon worshiper. Thank you for reafirming my belief that their are like minded people out there....

actually I was half drunk at work trying to type that... now dealing with a hangover trying to start XD

but np, I know it's hard to find those of like opinion.

The idea is that the elders gods created the universe and gave order to Chaos. He slayed Tiamat and made the earth out of her body and the sky from her wings. She is an Ancient One and is thus primordial - thus she sleeps. Most of the ancient ones are said to slumber or have become blinded by the act of creation.

The sumerians worshiped these elder gods because they represented nature. They followed in their own ''zones'' or ''courses'' (speaking in reference to the sky deities who have their own gates to keep those Without from coming Within). If you worshiped the ancient ones in the olden days, you worshiped death, chaos, and ultimately agreed that the elder ones are powerless to the ones who they defeated which was a blasphemy.

They were still worshiped, because the ''tablets of enki'' ( or was it enlil?) said that Apsu would rise, uniting heaven and earth... devouring the universe. Those who worshiped such entities believed they would be spared upon Armageddon. However, it was ultimately believed as well that since we are still of the cosmic order - we too would be devoured - regardless if we were born ''of the blood'' of Kingu who was an Ancient One that was slayed to create humanity (and as he is the source of our life, we are also his prison).

The rites of the sumerian pagans helped keep the natural order of things in line by pleasing their harsh deities (which represented their harsh environments) and by pleasing them, they were blessed with less disturbances from Without and the gates were better guarded. If they were not to give the proper sacrifices and offerings, perform their sacraments or whatever... they believed the universe would ultimately fall into chaos. Then you have Ereshkigal who is ''the goddess whom no one worshipeth'' who kills those who don't perform said rituals above... and Ishtar/Inanna who is said to give life to those who do follow the rituals in death. Humanity basically is forced to follow a specific set of guidelines and societal laws or else they perish and everything else perishes.

It boils down to if you think the universe is a chaotic and scary place with temporary forms of order here and there - or if you view it as a sublime and divinely ordered realm that is occasionally chaotic or disturbed. The former is a blasphemy and the latter is ''reality'' to the sumerians.

Really, I think it was just a bunch of myths used to explain their way of looking at the world - then later used to control humanity by controlling their sense of purpose, as well as their fears.

devakxes u seem up to speed on Sumerian mythos. Thanks for sharing ur thoughts on the issue I raised I'm abit limited in local company to discuss such matters.

I view the Elder gods and Marduk as alive and well disguised in the tri-form of the Abrahamic God. The mother still slumbers deep in the void beneath the known universe. I feel that her dreams are fitful and she stirs in her dreams, I just feel that the time to start back with the prayers to her are right. I been looking to find a new paradigm to work with and Tiamat seems right at the minute.

The abrahamic god was ''designed'' in mesopotamia. Sumeria is part of mesopotamia.

So you could be right.

I personally don't agree with their paradigm, but I don't judge you for choosing your path. There are some who believe it is only spirit that must survive in the end when Dies Irae (the day of wrath) comes, and then there are those who believe that their own consciousness must die in the end and return to Tiamat - but that this ''death'' is more desirable than what will come on Dies Irae.

Originally Posted by devakxes

Really, I think it was just a bunch of myths used to explain their way of looking at the world - then later used to control humanity by controlling their sense of purpose, as well as their fears.

Aye this can be applied to any of the religions or spiritual ideas. "why did (insert natural disaster here) happen? God/mother earth is punishing sinners!" while ignoring the trend of said natural disaster happening in cycles. "You Angelians are wicked and will have a bad quake!" Really now? Cause we get them every 10-20 yrs when they make their rounds around the ring of fire. It's been ~15 yrs since the last major one to hit this fault, so of course I'm waiting with my quake proofing! (Have been batting with people over this the past few days so it's really fresh and much an irk lol.)

Also agreed with the use of mythos to control the mass populous. This again is seen over and over again. Then trying to open people to that idea makes them call you "evil", "heretic", etc... well ty.

The egyptians made their gods based off of ''natural principles'' that can be compared to plato's ''First Principles.'' The word for this was ''neteru.'' The interactions of these principles caused what is the phenomena of the natural order around us. By becoming ''in harmony'' with said principles (or literally becoming them and uniting with their gods) they would survive the physical death and ascend into the heavenly realms. The egyptians had the principle of ''Humanity'' or the ''highest'' ... ''nobility'' which was Horus... whose blood line was egyptian royalty. The actions of the Pharaoh were what the rest of humanity was supposed to do (for the advancement of the human race). The priest-hood of whatever god the Pharaoh worshiped, generally manipulated the pharaoh by explaining how to harmonize with the deity. This was the farthest extent that manipulation went in egypt, besides on a personal level.
The culture ultimately fell because they were peaceful people who considered themselves more refined, and thus their people were attacked by the greeks and romans and other cultures. Their afterlife was seen as a heavenly place... since they were going to unite with their god in the afterlife.

The mesopotamians did not really believe humans could ever attain the Heavenly Realm unless you were a hero of some sort or did something special for the gods. The majority (the major deities were based off of natural principles) were just random creations to explain their myths. Humans were basically sentenced to live in the underworld unless they worshiped some sort of deity that promised them a happy afterlife (rebirth). Their version of the underworld can be compared to the greek Hades. Since not everyone knew of these resurrection deities... or were too poor to worship them... everyone in mesopotamia basically saw death as inevitable and their fatal end as inevitable. The gods of the mesopotamians did not desire to harmonize with humans but rather wanted to play with us like slaves or puppet. The priest-hood was considered the voice of such gods and thus controlled the populace.