Thread: Do you think Satanism is just reverse Christianity?

I wouldn't say it's reverse-Christianity at all, especially since one can be both a Satanist and a Christian. Satanism can be one of two things: a) working with Satan as an archetype, or b) working with demons and Satan as a spiritual figure. Neither of these amounts to reverse-Christianity.

By the way, loved the Slugworth comment. LOL Traditionally, Christianity held this view of Satan too. Fundies just decided to completely screw it up, by ignoring the Book of Job altogether.

Of course Satanism is just the flip side to Christian insanity. Demons and Gods? To think such is to be trapped in the Christian mythos ~ and it is a pagan mythos.

The fact is in very ancient Judaism there is not the same sense of personification of "God". YHYH, and the later YHVH, is not the name of a thing, but an algebraic formula.

What is Christian in this day is derived from the New Testament as determined by the counsels of the pagan emperor, Constantine. He influenced how the Gospels were edited to insure two things ~ his own empirical power and the continued worship of his mother who founded the Christian church. What the pagans obliterated from those Gospels is an ancient system of magick, far more powerful than most and the forerunner of modern psychology. Freud, Jung, and Gurdjief were all aware of the secret of the Gospels ~ a far greater mystery than the so called Di Vinci Code that it inspired.

All true and great magic, magick, and Majik is founded in the soundest science and physics ~ disciplines far more wondrous than the superstitious imagine.

Are there demons and gods? In a sense ~ as qualities of psyche. I bow to none of them. All gods and demons are mere elements, cogs in the machine of mind, that serve at my bidding.

Wulzirik: in Christianity, Satan's temptations were independent of God's will, versus the Jewish view that God permitted Satan to test the faith of God's followers...a prosecutor. And I don't want to be contrary for the sake of being contrary, but Satanism is a path...a mindset and belief system. One can not be a Christian and a Satanist at the same time.

cobra3: I wouldn't give even early or proto-Christianity that much credit. It was a social movement gone holy. I don't believe there was a lick of magic or even substantial esoterica in its foundation.

Where in the Ozarks are you?

Originally Posted by Lady Dunsany

I do not believe in the Christian God or Satan that is depicted in the bible. I do believe in a divine higher power that is the force in the Universe that we as a collective whole created. Satan to me is a name that was made up to keep the masses in line. Demons I believe just the lower part of us that we have created. Angels to me were always here, and some where some how they made themselves known throughout the thoughts of humans. The Angels to me are not under a deity they are here on their own, as I said in our collective consciousness we created them as all were created. This may sound arrogant but it is not meant to be. It is just my beliefs, I can not speak for anyone else.

I suppose i`m an odd one to then!. For myself, Satan represents the localised god-force for our planet earth, and demons etc are abstractions of this, and to explore/resonate with them one would achieve a conscious integration with "the essence". The "Bride" of Satan would be the feminine aspect of this localised cosmic dance on and around our earth and his terrestrial Mistress, their offspring would be what some would call "life" . I also dissagree that Satan needs to be of judeo christian origin, and one source says not so, and originates from the ancient Greek word "aitia" which means both an acusation and the origin or source of something and this was later taken up by the judaic dualists as was a lot of greek grammar etc. Another note would be that Satan is the Watcher Who Remained and is a Gateway to the Dark Gods and who Sininster practitioners seek to access so as to return these ancient ones to earth.
Anyway, i`m done waffling in your ears, for now ha ha! cheerio!

Originally Posted by Great American Desert

Wulzirik: in Christianity, Satan's temptations were independent of God's will, versus the Jewish view that God permitted Satan to test the faith of God's followers...a prosecutor. And I don't want to be contrary for the sake of being contrary, but Satanism is a path...a mindset and belief system. One can not be a Christian and a Satanist at the same time.

cobra3: I wouldn't give even early or proto-Christianity that much credit. It was a social movement gone holy. I don't believe there was a lick of magic or even substantial esoterica in its foundation.

Where in the Ozarks are you?

It does not depend on your giving credit. It is an historic fact that Constantine's intention was to distort the TRUE TEACHINGS. It is also historic fact that Freud, Jung, and Gurdjief (just to name three of very many) were fully aware of those TRUE TEACHINGS. I happen to know the key that unlocks the code of the Gospels. The TRUTH is there for any who can crack the code. While, on the other hand there is no evidence at all that Christianity was a social movement. All of the history was concocted after Constantine.

Satanism is entirely based on the false Christian mythos. In fact such personifications are not acknowledged amongst the earliest Judaic scholars to even be in the scriptures that are purported to be the source material for Christianity ~ the Old Testament. Such characterizations were seen as representing qualities of creation ~ not entities. What most miss is in that tradition there is one understanding that begins with the rabbinical scholars who are permitted to interpret scripture that then modifies when passed on to the masses by the rabbi, who is not permitted to interpret. While this method did manage to preserve much of the original intent on the level of the scholars, it created a common or superstitious interpretation by the masses that led to deification.

Another point, what sort of plastic and exoteric path is Satanism compared to Yezidi which is so much older and so different? It follows the later semi-deified traditions of the period shortly before the supposed crucifixion. In it, and this is not only Yezidi tradition but the accepted view of even recent rabbinical scholars, Lucifer is good and a servant of the one God. He rebels, in the allegorical tale, gets his ass kicked, repents and is cast out, not as punishment, but to serve joyously to set his karma right by filling this world with beauty.

I am in a few locations throughout southeast Kansas and southwest Missouri with one in northern Arkansas.

Originally Posted by Strider

I suppose i`m an odd one to then!. For myself, Satan represents the localised god-force for our planet earth, and demons etc are abstractions of this, and to explore/resonate with them one would achieve a conscious integration with "the essence". The "Bride" of Satan would be the feminine aspect of this localised cosmic dance on and around our earth and his terrestrial Mistress, their offspring would be what some would call "life" . I also dissagree that Satan needs to be of judeo christian origin, and one source says not so, and originates from the ancient Greek word "aitia" which means both an acusation and the origin or source of something and this was later taken up by the judaic dualists as was a lot of greek grammar etc. Another note would be that Satan is the Watcher Who Remained and is a Gateway to the Dark Gods and who Sininster practitioners seek to access so as to return these ancient ones to earth.
Anyway, i`m done waffling in your ears, for now ha ha! cheerio!

Nonsense. What Satanism is today is what it is...not defined by any historic alternate definition of terms. As defined by Satanists, it is a sad little rebellion against fanciful faith, and itself a fanciful faith. With some like the Yezidi who have traditions thousands of years old it is quite another thing. The are accused by the foolish in faith of being Satanists and devil worshippers, when actually they do not worship ~ they revere. What they revere is closer to something that only later was called Satan, a tempter ~ but was originally the symbolic representation of light and beauty, Lucifer. Or as they know it, Malek Taus ~ a peacock of cosmic proportion.

Originally Posted by Strider

I suppose i`m an odd one to then!. For myself, Satan represents the localised god-force for our planet earth, and demons etc are abstractions of this, and to explore/resonate with them one would achieve a conscious integration with "the essence". The "Bride" of Satan would be the feminine aspect of this localised cosmic dance on and around our earth and his terrestrial Mistress, their offspring would be what some would call "life" . I also dissagree that Satan needs to be of judeo christian origin, and one source says not so, and originates from the ancient Greek word "aitia" which means both an acusation and the origin or source of something and this was later taken up by the judaic dualists as was a lot of greek grammar etc. Another note would be that Satan is the Watcher Who Remained and is a Gateway to the Dark Gods and who Sininster practitioners seek to access so as to return these ancient ones to earth.
Anyway, i`m done waffling in your ears, for now ha ha! cheerio!

I do not think you are an odd one at all, I have respected your insight and input. You can waffle in my ears as much as you like. Smile.

Originally Posted by cobra3

It does not depend on your giving credit. It is an historic fact that Constantine's intention was to distort the TRUE TEACHINGS. It is also historic fact that Freud, Jung, and Gurdjief (just to name three of very many) were fully aware of those TRUE TEACHINGS. I happen to know the key that unlocks the code of the Gospels. The TRUTH is there for any who can crack the code. While, on the other hand there is no evidence at all that Christianity was a social movement. All of the history was concocted after Constantine.

Satanism is entirely based on the false Christian mythos. In fact such personifications are not acknowledged amongst the earliest Judaic scholars to even be in the scriptures that are purported to be the source material for Christianity ~ the Old Testament. Such characterizations were seen as representing qualities of creation ~ not entities. What most miss is in that tradition there is one understanding that begins with the rabbinical scholars who are permitted to interpret scripture that then modifies when passed on to the masses by the rabbi, who is not permitted to interpret. While this method did manage to preserve much of the original intent on the level of the scholars, it created a common or superstitious interpretation by the masses that led to deification.

Another point, what sort of plastic and exoteric path is Satanism compared to Yezidi which is so much older and so different? It follows the later semi-deified traditions of the period shortly before the supposed crucifixion. In it, and this is not only Yezidi tradition but the accepted view of even recent rabbinical scholars, Lucifer is good and a servant of the one God. He rebels, in the allegorical tale, gets his ass kicked, repents and is cast out, not as punishment, but to serve joyously to set his karma right by filling this world with beauty.

I am in a few locations throughout southeast Kansas and southwest Missouri with one in northern Arkansas.

Given that what you're suggesting about the magickal reality of pre-canonical Christianity is wholly and completely unverifiable, it certainly does depend on me, or anyone else, giving it credit. Yes, Christianity was standardized and constructed according to the preferences of those in power at the time, but this does not mean Christianity was a magical movement of any value. You're entitled to believe that as you will. But if you happen to be privy to the key that unlocks the mysteries of the true Christianity, please do share this wisdom. But one can not say "this is true because I know the secret" and expect to be taken seriously. Subjective truths are only valuable subjectively. One can't quantify "blue is a pretty color". I don't devalue your stance, but I do challenge the idea that there is any value in Christianity whatsoever, particularly from an Occult perspective. Also I would challenge the idea that Satanism is just a cheap imitation of the Yezidi faith. Similarities exist, to be sure; but a causal relationship?

Now, there were Gnostic Christian sects whose views were esoteric in nature, but this wasn't an esoteric belief that stemmed from the Christ cult itself. It was an incorporation of Christian myth into already-present mystery cults. A typical synergy.

I do believe that the Christian cult was largely political. The Jews were a politically inferior people in that time of Roman conquest, and Jesus was the answer to their woes - in a would-be way anyhow. I could be wrong, and will readily admit that. Given that it can't even be proven that Jesus existed, it most certainly can't be proven what his perceived purpose was at the time of his ministry. It's all speculation, just as your idea of a magickal Christianity.

Satanism is largely a response to one's Christian upbringing or surroundings. It follows the current of rebellion out of intellectual necessity. But to call it "a sad little rebellion" makes an ass out of yourself. It's an umbrella term for myriad paths; paths of varied worth and purpose, to be sure, but to cast it down to mere childish rebellion is fallacy. So I'll have to challenge you here: explain your take on what Satanism is, and justify your accusation. If you're unwilling or unable to do this, lay off the insults. This is a Satanism forum, and if your aim is to come in here with your nose in the air, you will easily be tripped. It's fair to verbally disagree; it's unfair to insult.

Originally Posted by cobra3

of course satanism is just the flip side to christian insanity. Demons and gods? To think such is to be trapped in the christian mythos ~ and it is a pagan mythos.

The fact is in very ancient judaism there is not the same sense of personification of "god". Yhyh, and the later yhvh, is not the name of a thing, but an algebraic formula.

What is christian in this day is derived from the new testament as determined by the counsels of the pagan emperor, constantine. He influenced how the gospels were edited to insure two things ~ his own empirical power and the continued worship of his mother who founded the christian church. What the pagans obliterated from those gospels is an ancient system of magick, far more powerful than most and the forerunner of modern psychology. Freud, jung, and gurdjief were all aware of the secret of the gospels ~ a far greater mystery than the so called di vinci code that it inspired.

All true and great magic, magick, and majik is founded in the soundest science and physics ~ disciplines far more wondrous than the superstitious imagine.

Are there demons and gods? In a sense ~ as qualities of psyche. I bow to none of them. All gods and demons are mere elements, cogs in the machine of mind, that serve at my bidding.

like the signature.. It is prity cool.

Originally Posted by cobra3

Nonsense. What Satanism is today is what it is...not defined by any historic alternate definition of terms. As defined by Satanists, it is a sad little rebellion against fanciful faith, and itself a fanciful faith. With some like the Yezidi who have traditions thousands of years old it is quite another thing. The are accused by the foolish in faith of being Satanists and devil worshippers, when actually they do not worship ~ they revere. What they revere is closer to something that only later was called Satan, a tempter ~ but was originally the symbolic representation of light and beauty, Lucifer. Or as they know it, Malek Taus ~ a peacock of cosmic proportion.

Nonsense maybe, however it is one of many alternate views on the nature of "satanism" other than those peddaled by the infantile christ haters and rebelious teenage glue sniffers inspired by the media and by their own misunderstood shadows. The yezidi are indeed branded wrong (no thanks modernly to LaVey etc) but maybe certain old pagan traditions of Europe were alse miss-branded but chose to play the fools at their own game instead of simply ignoring the slight? Also, maybe certain branches of "satanists" fully understand that their gods/ess/demons etc are merely externalisations from the deeper mind, but use these to better get a grip on certain subconscious elements, suppose Jung etc wouldve understood that aswel.
Personally, i make a point of changing my surface beliefs at least twice a month as to manipulate ones own is a priceless tool so few are prepared to work at.