Thread: Do you think Satanism is just reverse Christianity?

Originally Posted by Strider

Nonsense maybe, however it is one of many alternate views of the nature of "satanism" other than those peddaled by the infantile christ haters and rebelious teenage glue sniffers inspired by the media and by their own misunderstood shadows. The yezidi are indeed branded wrong (no thanks modernly to LaVey etc) but maybe certain old pagan traditions of Europe were alse miss-branded but chose to play the fools at their own game instead of ignoring the slight?

i agree my friend..

Originally Posted by cobra3

Of course Satanism is just the flip side to Christian insanity. Demons and Gods? To think such is to be trapped in the Christian mythos ~ and it is a pagan mythos.

The fact is in very ancient Judaism there is not the same sense of personification of "God". YHYH, and the later YHVH, is not the name of a thing, but an algebraic formula.

What is Christian in this day is derived from the New Testament as determined by the counsels of the pagan emperor, Constantine. He influenced how the Gospels were edited to insure two things ~ his own empirical power and the continued worship of his mother who founded the Christian church. What the pagans obliterated from those Gospels is an ancient system of magick, far more powerful than most and the forerunner of modern psychology. Freud, Jung, and Gurdjief were all aware of the secret of the Gospels ~ a far greater mystery than the so called Di Vinci Code that it inspired.

All true and great magic, magick, and Majik is founded in the soundest science and physics ~ disciplines far more wondrous than the superstitious imagine.

Are there demons and gods? In a sense ~ as qualities of psyche. I bow to none of them. All gods and demons are mere elements, cogs in the machine of mind, that serve at my bidding.

Believing that the gods/ess are merely aspects of ones mind should not prevent one from using such magical tools as believing that they really do exist to explore the psyche? Whether one agrees or not the majority of people born within the "West" are born imprinted with the judo-Christian/dualistic archetype, as the psyche draws its "energy" from the current (and distorted) aeon that we have yet to completely shed. This begins the "reef of the soul" and is built upon dramatically by the environmental factors - family/friends the media and the education systems etc. etc. - (which are flock orientated dualistic and unbalanced due to the fact that the "dark side" is suppressed and the "light side" deemed as necessary for social acceptance etc) until the individual reaches adulthood and, if lucky, discovers that their beliefs opinions characteristics etc are not their own but have been taken on board unknowingly from their peers etc throughout these formative years. One purpose of "Satanism" in the early stages is to break down this restrictive mindset, to confront what has been suppressed, to break taboo and to bring the mind into some kind of balanced state so as to eventually transcend opposites and return the mind to its intended pre-distorted and truly Western archetypes.
Maybe some disagree with the names used but no other name will be as effective as "Satan" in confronting the plague from the dessert that has been branded upon the western psyche,
there are many new and exciting expressions of the sinister now but the "trigger" of Satan is and will be for some years yet a necessary tool for many in the overcoming of the distorted essence that still informs western "civilisation" Why would we want to take this from them? Realy?

Perhaps, if it were not for the code and how very easy it is to crack that code, there would be no solid way to verify such claims. But this has little to do with my contention. Whether it can be verified or not to your satisfaction is not at issue. Whether it was verifiable to others who are responsible for magical traditions to this day is far more determining. Christianity was not a magical movement until recent centuries based on solving the code.

YHShVH was NEVER a man. It was an oral magick (with a “k”) tradition. The very formulation of the term YHShVH from YHVH, and that from the earlier YHYH makes it evident. Superstition made it a man just as superstition made qualities of creation into deities. Christianity as magick, something that in no way resembles the religion, gave birth to modern psychology. That, alone, makes it one of the most significant magick systems in history. The point should be made before we proceed, low level magic, like Wicca, exists as movements. Magick does not. It creates movements that have given us things like psychology, mathematics, music, and language.

Satanism is in no way a cheap imitation of the beautiful and reverent Yezidi. I have personally known many of these Satanists, including that moron, Anton. Anton was not knowledgeable enough to even know what a Yezidi is. Satanism is not derived directly from more legitimate Luciferian traditions. It was born out of Western knee-jerk superstition.

Yes, I do know the code. I also know that those who would presume to discuss such things as though knowingly should be well aware that there are many books on it and an entire school associated with it. Those who know the code and live by THE WAY played an integral and determining part in shaping the twentieth century, holding seminars that were very popular across the United States and Europe. Crowley, in fact, toured the United States partly out of jealousy and concern over its growing influence.

Satanism is reactionary. That is the point. You pay no attention to history however. Christianity was one thing before Constantine’s mother ~ a secret brotherhood. She made it a church so that she herself could be revered as the mother figure. Christianity was quite another after her son. He, Constantine called together the counsels to edit the Gospels because of the growing influence among the populace of that secret brotherhood presenting THE WAY contrary to his mother’s church. It was spawning sects. According to THE WAY there is no lord…none…no earthly rulers. Adonai is lord. Rightly understood, Adonai today would translate to “genius”. This did not at all fit with the pagan paradigm. Constantine was lord and his mother, the blessed Marry.

Originally Posted by Great American Desert

Given that what you're suggesting about the magickal reality of pre-canonical Christianity is wholly and completely unverifiable, it certainly does depend on me, or anyone else, giving it credit. Yes, Christianity was standardized and constructed according to the preferences of those in power at the time, but this does not mean Christianity was a magical movement of any value. You're entitled to believe that as you will. But if you happen to be privy to the key that unlocks the mysteries of the true Christianity, please do share this wisdom. But one can not say "this is true because I know the secret" and expect to be taken seriously. Subjective truths are only valuable subjectively. One can't quantify "blue is a pretty color". I don't devalue your stance, but I do challenge the idea that there is any value in Christianity whatsoever, particularly from an Occult perspective. Also I would challenge the idea that Satanism is just a cheap imitation of the Yezidi faith. Similarities exist, to be sure; but a causal relationship?

Now, there were Gnostic Christian sects whose views were esoteric in nature, but this wasn't an esoteric belief that stemmed from the Christ cult itself. It was an incorporation of Christian myth into already-present mystery cults. A typical synergy.

I do believe that the Christian cult was largely political. The Jews were a politically inferior people in that time of Roman conquest, and Jesus was the answer to their woes - in a would-be way anyhow. I could be wrong, and will readily admit that. Given that it can't even be proven that Jesus existed, it most certainly can't be proven what his perceived purpose was at the time of his ministry. It's all speculation, just as your idea of a magickal Christianity.

Satanism is largely a response to one's Christian upbringing or surroundings. It follows the current of rebellion out of intellectual necessity. But to call it "a sad little rebellion" makes an ass out of yourself. It's an umbrella term for myriad paths; paths of varied worth and purpose, to be sure, but to cast it down to mere childish rebellion is fallacy. So I'll have to challenge you here: explain your take on what Satanism is, and justify your accusation. If you're unwilling or unable to do this, lay off the insults. This is a Satanism forum, and if your aim is to come in here with your nose in the air, you will easily be tripped. It's fair to verbally disagree; it's unfair to insult.

Originally Posted by Strider

Nonsense maybe, however it is one of many alternate views on the nature of "satanism" other than those peddaled by the infantile christ haters and rebelious teenage glue sniffers inspired by the media and by their own misunderstood shadows. The yezidi are indeed branded wrong (no thanks modernly to LaVey etc) but maybe certain old pagan traditions of Europe were alse miss-branded but chose to play the fools at their own game instead of simply ignoring the slight? Also, maybe certain branches of "satanists" fully understand that their gods/ess/demons etc are merely externalisations from the deeper mind, but use these to better get a grip on certain subconscious elements, suppose Jung etc wouldve understood that aswel.
Personally, i make a point of changing my surface beliefs at least twice a month as to manipulate ones own is a priceless tool so few are prepared to work at.

Satanism is reactionary. That is the point. You pay no attention to history however. Christianity was one thing before Constantine’s mother ~ a secret brotherhood. She made it a church so that she herself could be revered as the mother figure. Christianity was quite another after her son. He, Constantine called together the counsels to edit the Gospels because of the growing influence among the populace of that secret brotherhood presenting THE WAY contrary to his mother’s church. In was spawning sects. According to THE WAY there is no lord…none…no earthly rulers. Adonai is lord. Rightly understood, Adonai today would translate to “genius”. This did not at all fit with the pagan paradigm. Constantine was lord and his mother, the blessed Marry.


Look, it is not an alternate view. Yezidi is not alternate. If anything Satanism would be alternate but it isn’t even that. Western Satanism is foolishness. It is not based on revered traditions. It is based on adolescent rebellion some never out grow. In fact many, including Anton LeVay, knew this and were just out to capitalize off immature angst ~ something those of us with hair on our privates have generally outgrown. In those days long ago, Anton admitted this openly. Well, openly among us.

Of course, there is the European version of Devil worship. That is nothing more than emotive compulsiveness that acts out as wicked behavior, usually accompanied with sadomasochism. Not a legitimate occult tradition ~ just nasty.

Where it is legitimate occult tradition, as with Yezidi, I do not take issue with it. But Yezidi is not worshipful. It is reverent. It does not revere a negative. Lucifer, Malek Taus, the great Peacock God, (a quality ~ not a personification) is seen as the giver of light and beauty and a gift to man. The religious faithful who BELIEVE in good and evil in both Muslim and Christian sects have been attempting to annihilate the Yezidi for this very sane occult tradition. It is estimated that the FAITHFUL have succeeded and the Yezidi culture is no longer large enough to survive. How long before all we have is a plastic Jesus on that dash board and a cheesy red devil tattoo to go with it?

"Satanism is largely a response to one's Christian upbringing or surroundings. It follows the current of rebellion out of intellectual necessity. But to call it "a sad little rebellion" makes an ass out of yourself. It's an umbrella term for myriad paths; paths of varied worth and purpose, to be sure, but to cast it down to mere childish rebellion is fallacy. So I'll have to challenge you here: explain your take on what Satanism is, and justify your accusation. If you're unwilling or unable to do this, lay off the insults. This is a Satanism forum, and if your aim is to come in here with your nose in the air, you will easily be tripped. It's fair to verbally disagree; it's unfair to insult."


Don’t blame the messenger! The facts about both Wicca and Satanism are difficult for some. That is not my problem. My take on Satanism, dear, is based on very many years active in the occult on a level you have not even imagined. This includes having personally known Kenneth Anger, Anton Wilson, and Kenneth Grant ~ and some far greater than they you would not have heard about.

Look kids, I do not mean to seem disrespectful. Really, I am not. My perspective is from knowing the BO of some of those you admire and misread. I am not some child seeking a way. I am an accomplished esoteric jeweler and have been involved in New Age sense the days when I sipped coffee with an opium floater across from Jerry Garcia and Stewart Brand.

And don't expect fair from me. I am as fair as any natural disaster.

Okay. Let us try to keep this civil and leave the egos at the door, unless any of us is a God which I seriously doubt we still no matter how old we are have a lot to learn. I can throw names around too, but what good is that going to do. Everyone here is an individual with their beliefs and their own trek on their journey. the only one that can judge another human being is themselves. Frankly this is not a Satanism thread it is a question concerning both Christianity and Satanism so all are free to give their opinion. Let us keep it that way.

Originally Posted by Lady Dunsany

Okay. Let us try to keep this civil and leave the egos at the door, unless any of us is a God which I seriously doubt we still no matter how old we are have a lot to learn. I can throw names around too, but what good is that going to do. Everyone here is an individual with their beliefs and their own trek on their journey. the only one that can judge another human being is themselves. Frankly this is not a Satanism thread it is a question concerning both Christianity and Satanism so all are free to give their opinion. Let us keep it that way.

Never leave a valuable ego at the door. If that is called for, one such as Salvador Dali would not be welcome here. Some value well formed and disciplined ego.

Communicating is not a matter of how much we have to learn or even how much we THINK we know. The point of communicating is to share what it is that is valid and works. I am successful enough to speak with full confidence in many arenas, regardless of whom I have known. Who I have known is a result of personal effectiveness. I did not know them as an aspirant on my part. We were peers or they sought my work. The point being made is in response to the query ~ I speak as one of many who formulated this New Age.

Nor do all value belief. Belief, when held as hypothesis towards coming to conclusions beyond belief is a tool. Beyond that, belief and sectarian faith are the leading cause of war, atrocities, and genocide.

Link
THROUGH THE COBRA'S EYE

Oh pleeze spare me . Blah Blah Blah. An ego is not valuable it gets in the way of what is truly important, and you know that better than anyone what is important. So let us get down to brass tactics if you are the natural disaster then I am the one that fuels it to a small pebble. Hey nice to meet you.

Originally Posted by Lady Dunsany

Oh pleeze spare me . Blah Blah Blah. An ego is not valuable it gets in the way of what is truly important, and you know that better than anyone what is important. So let us get down to brass tactics if you are the natural disaster then I am the one that fuels it to a small pebble. Hey nice to meet you.

Opinions are like (well, that thing we all have). Guess what? Salvador Dali's is prettier than yours. All depends on what you consider truly important. Gandhi had monstrous ego, as did Dali, Crowley, and many others that determine our destinies. I admit readily mine is huge. Large enough that I create jobs, invent devices to make your life safer, other devices that enable the disabled, do pioneering work with brain trauma victims, and am so damned big headed when I adopted a child I sought the one most in need. She is agenesis corpus collasum and hydrocephalic. You got to have hairy ones hanging to the floor to take that on. But, what the hey. I am a conceited son of a bitch. Wonder what it is that got in the way of all others who would not have her?

Link
THROUGH THE COBRA'S EYE

Originally Posted by cobra3

Never leave a valuable ego at the door. If that is called for, one such as Salvador Dali would not be welcome here. Some value well formed and disciplined ego.

Communicating is not a matter of how much we have to learn or even how much we THINK we know. The point of communicating is to share what it is that is valid and works. I am successful enough to speak with full confidence in many arenas, regardless of whom I have known. Who I have known is a result of personal effectiveness. I did not know them as an aspirant on my part. We were peers or they sought my work. The point being made is in response to the query ~ I speak as one of many who formulated this New Age.

Nor do all value belief. Belief, when held as hypothesis towards coming to conclusions beyond belief is a tool. Beyond that, belief and sectarian faith are the leading cause of war, atrocities, and genocide.

Link
THROUGH THE COBRA'S EYE

Few magical traditions recognize the ego as usefull, those that do are mostly concerened with wallowing in their supposed abilities and not pushing them to the point of transformation. Many who speak of being this successful or that well connected would not need to do so if this were really so, it would speak for itself in the way they conducted their connection with others. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on my second reply as you are truely a brick wall and i like you for this. As for "this new age" which one would that be? ha ha, which brings me back to said second reply on belief.
However, as Lady D said, enough of this, it is now boring and unproductive and would be well placed in another forum. Unless of course you are simply playing the accuser that you claim to despise so much? !!!